YouTube and public land

[silent tom]

It's taken a few years but people are finally getting sick and tired of having the public areas they hunt  blasted for pennies on the dollar (speaking in regards to the monetization rates on YouTube)
I realize this is a harsh thing to say, but this discussion/thread needed to be had. 
It's one thing to help another hunter out via PM, it's a whole different animal to give up the ghost for the masses to see.

[PaytonWP]

It's taken a few years but people are finally getting sick and tired of having the public areas they hunt  blasted for pennies on the dollar (speaking in regards to the monetization rates on YouTube)
I realize this is a harsh thing to say, but this discussion/thread needed to be had. 
It's one thing to help another hunter out via PM, it's a whole different animal to give up the ghost for the masses to see.

You are exactly right. Some people want to say they can do what they want because it's public land. I don't go into public restrooms and crap all in the floor and sinks just because it's public. If someone's actions affect other users in a negative way it's not right and that's exactly what's going on. All to make a dollar.

[arkrem870]

   I hope " The Hunting  Pubic" does not pick my main Public areas this Spring.

It'll be forever changed if they do. Every year these dudes screw another group of spots for people. I've seen it first hand. Loose lips sink ships.

Three things I learned a long time ago

1. If your banging best looking girl at school dont tell anyone if you want to keep getting it.
2. If your making easy money you'd better keep it quiet or somebody will undercut you
3. If your catching crappie / killing big deer / ducks/ turkeys  etc keep it quiet or you'll have company.

[SD_smith]

Living in arkansas and seeing what social media/YouTube has done to our public duck hunting is sickening.  Now we are doing it to turkeys hunting as well.....

Based on the number of Arkansas hunters I run into while hunting other states, I'd say that they are single handedly responsible for the turkey decline. 

Right?! When I lived in the Black Hills I'd honestly rarely see residents hunting turkeys, but the amount of Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Georgia plates I seen there was astounding. 20:1 ratio nonres to resident. Easily. Wonder how many got on Facebook and this forum to brag over the years? Hmmmmm?

Shane you're good in my book! Keep on keeping on! Just stay out of my prairie spots! Ha!


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[sasquatch1]

THP showed a fan coming up to them at a gas station one morning.  Just to prove a point, I told a buddy, give me 30 minutes and I'll tell you where they are.  Using google street view, Took about 10 before I figured it out. Guess what, they were right next to a piece of public, where they were showing gobbling birds.   
Same can be said for guys talking about a distance from an airport, city, etc. all it takes is showing an exit sign and people can hone in. 

If you guys think these YouTube hunters aren't putting a lot more people in these areas they publicize, you are dead wrong. 
Once you see an area(s) bombarded with people after someone puts a video out there, your attitude tends to change...
buddy of mine sent a podcast about Dave Owens talking about how bad the pressure on south FL public has became.  Why do you think that is

Dave has single handedly changed the dynamics of hunting on Big Cypress and he will continue to kill turkeys there despite the pressure because he is tenacious and talented.  A close industry friend of mine who hunted down there last year was told by the ranger there was a 400% increase in the number of people who hunted a particular area on opening weekend compared to opening weekends in the past. 

Everybody found out that THP was on Bienville last year and it's now the number one draw application WMA in the state of Mississippi.  Everybody knows that Dave hunts Homochitto; ask a local how enjoyable things are down there from a pressure perspective. 

There are countless locals who have had Youtubers visit their local public hunting spots only to deal with the masses who descend afterwards.  The reality is, the average turkey hunter doesn't have the disposable income or the vacation time to travel all over the country and they have to deal with the consequences of exposure once it happens. 

The majority of the United States now has a decreasing turkey population despite the fact that turkey hunter numbers are increasing.  There are still plenty of places a guy can go and hear turkeys gobble, BUT the reality is most of those places were considerably better 5,10 and 15 years ago. 

Most people have not travelled extensively enough or long enough to have any perspective on this.  I started hunting out of stated in 2003.  There is something impactfully saddening about visiting a piece of public land where gobbling turkeys were abundant 15 years ago to see it over run with trucks.  If you've never experienced it, I'm happy for you.  But no one can tell me it's better for the turkeys.  As far as I'm concerned, until we start shortening season lengths and reducing bag limits, the turkeys don't need additional hunter recruitment and they sure don't need Youtubers broadcasting where you can get unlimited OTC tags to kill turkeys until your trigger finger is broken or your conscience finally catches up to you. 

To be clear, I don't have any fundamental problems with videoed turkey hunting.  I've consumed thousands of hours of it from the earliest Truth series videos, to Cutt'n and Strutt'n to Youtube.  But for the life of me, I do not understand why the YouTube crowd feels compelled to disclose what state and/or region they are hunting when it comes to public land.  It's unnecessary and it's the the root of the problem but they continue to do it.   

My opinions are not popular among the fanboys and everyone promoting inclusion these days but they are formulated based on a lot of personal experience and quantifiable data (harvest numbers, population data, etc).  Turkey hunting is more fun with more gobbling turkeys in the woods.  Despite the fact that it's rewarding, it's considerably less fun when you have to walk 15 miles in a day to find one.  My kid can participate in plenty of activities that provide more immediate rewards and satisfaction than turkey hunting on public land offers a kid these days.  The better hunting is on private land and you're going to continue to see lease prices escalate as those with $$$ become more willing to pay absurd prices to avoid the public land rat race. 

Goodluck this spring.

And for the ones who didn't know or figure out where those guys hunt, you let them know now in direct wording


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[GobbleNut]

I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.

This should be the attitude of all traveling turkey hunters.  Folks need to get away from the attitude that "the limit is X, so I gotta kill X to prove I have the big, red, turkey-huntin "S" on my chest!" 

Someone here on OG said a while back that the limit for nonresidents in every state should be one.  I'm beginning to think that would be a great idea!   

[VA_Birdhunter]

I can't speak for the others but I'm usually a one and done guy when I travel to different states. Even if a state allows for multiple birds to be harvested, once I kill just one, I'm happy and in most cases, I head home with unused tags and days remaining to hunt. I just enjoy traveling and seeing different areas of the country as much as I enjoy turkey hunting.

This should be the attitude of all traveling turkey hunters.  Folks need to get away from the attitude that "the limit is X, so I gotta kill X to prove I have the big, red, turkey-huntin "S" on my chest!" 

Someone here on OG said a while back that the limit for nonresidents in every state should be one.  I'm beginning to think that would be a great idea!   

Gobblenut....that's actually a great idea!!   Like Shane I also take that approach and also to leave the woods better than I found them which is unfortunately a dying lesson that was passed on to me but I can assure ya my boys know it well!  I carry pockets full of trash out it seems every trip.  Same way as ensuring I'm taking a clean ethical shot to kill the bird which in my opinion they deserve no less! God bless

[Howie g]

I see and personally know several young hunters who are just learning the ropes of chasing gobblers . These guys worship the Pinhoti guy , and the other you tubers , they dress like em , act like em , smoke nasty —- cigars like em ,lol etc . They are traveling like em also . Has social media, and you tube added more hunters in the timber ?  Dang right it has , make no mistake !
  But , there's tons of other things out there in this world we live in today that these young guys could be getting into instead of chasing gobblers all over the place ! Tons of really terrible things !! So if there's a positive thing ?? I'd rather see em be parked in one of my " honey " holes , then be parked in jail !
Or even worse ,. Become young democratic types !  Lol .

[eggshell]

Been thinking about that one bird limit on non-residents and thought of a question. Do you think it would detour people away from traveling to hunt? I wonder if many would feel they were getting ripped off when they already pay at least 2-3 times more than residents to hunt, in many cases for only 2-3 days. The other caveat is, unless many states done it the others would suffer as hunters would move to the states with higher limits. My experience is most don't kill a limit, but they want the opportunity to hunt. Myself, I would be very disappointed if I spent hundreds of dollars and killed a bird in the first hour of a three day hunt. I actually done this in Florida. We arrived the afternoon before our hunt and the outfitter offered to let us hunt a plot that had been hunted pretty hard already for fun. Well we doubled up on a couple long beards within the first hour that evening. So there the two of us sat for three days, he only allowed one bird, twittling our thumbs and trying to find something to do. One of the guides did take us to an orange grove to hunts nuisance hogs, that was ok, but we traveled and paid big bucks to turkey hunt. In most cases I would be ok with one bird, but I also see the point it is terribly unfair to penalize a hunter by charging a big price then double penalize him for living somewhere else. I think I would vote to make the limit the same for everyone and leave the choice up to the hunter. I just don't like the thought I'm being punished for who I am or where I live? How many would travel to a state if they said you can call and take pictures, but you can't shoot one....probably no one? We pay to hunt. For once I think I disagree with old Gobblenut. I have made many out of state trips and killed zero, but I had a great time hunting. Most years i only kill one out of state gobbler, but many years I kill my limit too. I will have to think on this more.

[bigriverbum]

i don't begrudge anyone traveling all over the country killing a dozen turkey and dozen deer a year, but it's kinda shitty they publicize the places and then also benefit monetarily from it

i'm content to hunt the state i live in. keeps me plenty busy/fed.  let people in other states have at their own opportunities. wish they'd respect mine

[GobbleNut]

Been thinking about that one bird limit on non-residents and thought of a question. Do you think it would detour people away from traveling to hunt? I wonder if many would feel they were getting ripped off when they already pay at least 2-3 times more than residents to hunt, in many cases for only 2-3 days. The other caveat is, unless many states done it the others would suffer as hunters would move to the states with higher limits. My experience is most don't kill a limit, but they want the opportunity to hunt. Myself, I would be very disappointed if I spent hundreds of dollars and killed a bird in the first hour of a three day hunt. I actually done this in Florida. We arrived the afternoon before our hunt and the outfitter offered to let us hunt a plot that had been hunted pretty hard already for fun. Well we doubled up on a couple long beards within the first hour that evening. So there the two of us sat for three days, he only allowed one bird, twittling our thumbs and trying to find something to do. One of the guides did take us to an orange grove to hunts nuisance hogs, that was ok, but we traveled and paid big bucks to turkey hunt. In most cases I would be ok with one bird, but I also see the point it is terribly unfair to penalize a hunter by charging a big price then double penalize him for living somewhere else. I think I would vote to make the limit the same for everyone and leave the choice up to the hunter. I just don't like the thought I'm being punished for who I am or where I live? How many would travel to a state if they said you can call and take pictures, but you can't shoot one....probably no one? We pay to hunt. For once I think I disagree with old Gobblenut. I have made many out of state trips and killed zero, but I had a great time hunting. Most years i only kill one out of state gobbler, but many years I kill my limit too. I will have to think on this more.

Eggshell, your point here is the flipside of the suggestion to consider a one-bird limit for nonresidents (wasn't really my idea to begin with, I just saw it stated by someone else and thought it had some merit),...and I agree that it would present some real inconvenience in certain circumstances like the one you describe.

However, we are discussing ways to decrease hunting pressure and harvest in places that appear to need that.  If too many hunters concentrating in certain places,...and too many gobblers being taken out of the population in those areas,...is indeed a problem, then making those places less desirable for hunters to flock to is one way to achieve that goal. 

My general comment about a one-bird nonresident limit in every state was admittedly too general.  There are many places where having a two-bird limit (one a day) would be just dandy,...for the time being.  This is not a "one size fits all" suggestion.  It is just a suggestion that could (and most likely should) be applied in certain areas of the country. 

[Happy]

These are just my personal thoughts and by no means a slight towards others.
I can legally kill 4 gobblers in the 2 states I hunt. My boy can also kill 4. That is 8 gobblers total if have counted the correct amount of fingers. I have plenty to entertain me in the 5 week season not counting others I help. So If I would be looking at another state I would be perfectly content to pay a 100 or 150 overall price tag for 1 turkey. Provided that a certain percentage went directly to wild turkey management. I know this would cause much weeping and outrage but I would also be all for a national bag limit of 6-8 birds total. Deer hunting turned into a horn worshiping crap show and turkey hunting is turning into a #'s game. I am not a fan of either. And just to be fair I haven't limited out in several years due to our populations taking a bit of a hit. Rather save a few and get to hunt all year then tag out and be done.

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[Jimspur]

I started out hunting on public land in 1980 and started to travel out of state hunting on public land around 1990. When I started traveling to hunt you had to get the road maps to get you where you wanted to go, you had to obtain the topo maps of your hunting area, and you had to know how to use a map and compass. We now have mapping apps that will take you to your destination and topo maps with GPS on our phones. I think this has emboldened more people to travel out of state and to walk further from their truck than they ever would have before. Most people used to stay closer to the roads they walked in on for fear of getting lost. Now they just drop a pin at their truck and their fear is gone. I think the YouTubers might have gotten them interested in the first place, but it takes a lot less effort to plan trips nowadays than ever before. You used to have to write or call to speak to the state turkey biologist to get recommendations on where to go. Research and obtaining maps used to take 3 months, now you just "Google" it, and see where your favorite internet hero is hunting.
You can figure out where to go now in 3 days, or have your friend "give you a pin". What used to be a small fraternity of die-hards who couldn't care less about what people thought of them has now been replaced by hunters wanting to post pictures, and seeking likes and thumbs up.
Hard core has been replaced by look at me.

[ddturkeyhunter]

I would be all for a one bird limit in any other state but my own, if thats what it would take to keep hunting out state. But then my entire life (MN) you are only allowed one spring bird in MN, and thats in a seven day hunt. In my begining years turkey hunting it took 2-3 years just to draw a permit to try to hunt one. Thats what made me drive ten hours each years to SD black hills to try to shoot ONE turkey. So everone count your blessing for what you have or had, because times are changing. I am all for a one bird limit in any out of state hunt, and I am a average Joe on a fixed income now, not a lot of money.

[eggshell]

It's all good discussion. We all need to think about the wonderful resource we have. I am spoiled with the bounty of all the opportunity we have today. I, of all people, should know this, because I hunted when the season was three days long and if you knew where one gobbling bird was you were lucky. Our flock was pretty much restricted to the area within and around the local state forest. Boy back then a bunch of hunters concentrated would have devastated the whole flock. Now there are birds everywhere around me. Maybe the flocks aren't as big or concentrated as some sates or areas, but we're a long ways from those early years. I bet this is true of most areas. It's not  their fault, but the young youtubers have never known anything but the bounty of the flocks we have. Even a declined flock is many times more turkeys than we had in those early years. Our tags back then were all draw tags. I think if we decide we need to limit pressure and reduce kill, that a limited permit system is a better solution. If you truly feel an area has too much non-resident pressure then limit the tags for them and make it a draw. You can't price people out of hunting, they will pay whatever.