Eastern roost study

[ArkyRidgeRunna]

Here's a photo from an interesting study of an eastern toms roost sites from mar-May. Lot more moving around then a lot of folks would think. Goes to show sometimes you just have to go and let the day unfold! Birds can move around quick!


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[StruttinGobbler3]

I wholeheartedly believe this. Just about when I think I have a gobblers roost nailed down, I go in after him and he's 400 yards from where I thought I had him pinned.


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[Sir-diealot]

Could you provide a link to the study please? Thank you.

[GobbleNut]

Interesting stuff.  For me, the next question would be if this gobbler was being hunted during this time period,...and if so, how much?  Personally, I would be very surprised if this bird was not getting hunting pretty hard to have that much variation in his roost sites. 

You really can't call this a "study" as much as an "experiment",...that is, assuming there were not other gobblers involved,...and especially if there was not some sort of "control groups" of both hunted and unhunted gobblers.  If those control groups did exist, I would be extremely surprised if the unhunted birds were not much truer to their traditional roost sites.   

Looking at this from a "turkey biologist" standpoint, my immediate concern would be how this amount of variation would impact breeding and nesting.  With this amount of roost disruption,...and if it was indeed related to hunting pressure as I would suspect,....I would want to be absolutely certain that the population had ample time to breed before starting the hunting season.

[Paulmyr]

Interesting stuff.  For me, the next question would be if this gobbler was being hunted during this time period,...and if so, how much?  Personally, I would be very surprised if this bird was not getting hunting pretty hard to have that much variation in his roost sites. 

You really can't call this a "study" as much as an "experiment",...that is, assuming there were not other gobblers involved,...and especially if there was not some sort of "control groups" of both hunted and unhunted gobblers.  If those control groups did exist, I would be extremely surprised if the unhunted birds were not much truer to their traditional roost sites.   

Looking at this from a "turkey biologist" standpoint, my immediate concern would be how this amount of variation would impact breeding and nesting.  With this amount of roost disruption,...and if it was indeed related to hunting pressure as I would suspect,....I would want to be absolutely certain that the population had ample time to breed before starting the hunting season.

Pretty sure those maps came from the biologist Micheal Chamberlain's facebook page who is interviewed in the meateater podcast. If so he has been studying turkeys for the last 25 years. He post maps like these on his Twitter account and Facebook page. The are small insight to the larger studies he has been performing for years. If you'll listen to the podcast you'll learn eastern gobblers never return to the same roost 2 days in a row. You may hear a gobbler in the same roost area but he explains how its different birds. Its a defense mechanism designed to keep him safe from predators. Dr Chamberlain does a much better job of explaining this than I can. If you haven't already you need to listen to this podcast. It discusses everything from predators, hunting pressure, and the breeding habits of wild turkeys. It's a long podcast 2 1/2hrs and filled with great information from his research.

[Sir-diealot]

This is what he had to say about the picture. Link to his Facebook page underneath.

This Turkey Tuesday is about how toms select roost sites, and how many roost sites they use during spring. I get asked quite a bit, "how many roosts does a tom use during the hunting season"? Well, this figure shows nightly roost sites of a tom during March-May, and shows a typical behavior we see in the Eastern subspecies. I used to think that toms returned to the same roosts each night, but we find that not to be the case. Instead, toms have many roosts they use, and although clearly they return to places (note the "clumps" of dots), they typically do not use the same roost site each night. Instead, we see that oftentimes, a tom will leave a roost site and another tom will use that same area that night. Clearly, roost sites are places where toms feel safe and believe they can attract hens (assuming they gobble there). But it also makes sense to use a different roost each night, at least to some degree. Don't go to the same place each night and gobble there the next morning, doing so allows predators to key in on your locations. The take home is, roosting behavior is something we're now beginning to better understand, as we learn more about how this bird behaves. https://www.facebook.com/michael.chamberlain.31

[Paulmyr]

Interesting stuff.  For me, the next question would be if this gobbler was being hunted during this time period,...and if so, how much?  Personally, I would be very surprised if this bird was not getting hunting pretty hard to have that much variation in his roost sites. 

You really can't call this a "study" as much as an "experiment",...that is, assuming there were not other gobblers involved,...and especially if there was not some sort of "control groups" of both hunted and unhunted gobblers.  If those control groups did exist, I would be extremely surprised if the unhunted birds were not much truer to their traditional roost sites.   

Looking at this from a "turkey biologist" standpoint, my immediate concern would be how this amount of variation would impact breeding and nesting.  With this amount of roost disruption,...and if it was indeed related to hunting pressure as I would suspect,....I would want to be absolutely certain that the population had ample time to breed before starting the hunting season.

If you'll listen to the podcast you'll learn eastern gobblers never return to the same roost 2 days in a row. You may hear a gobbler in the same roost area but he explains how its different birds. Its a defense mechanism designed to keep him safe from predators.

"never return" was a bad choice of words. I should have used the terms "highly unlikely"

[turkey_slayer]

To many variables for this to be concrete. Toms with hens do tend to roost in the same vicinity unless pressured. Didn't say same tree but same area. A lone gobbler is known to travel 5 miles a day. How many guys see the same flock in the same field day in and day out? A lot. Way to many variables for this to be any meaning

[Paulmyr]

To many variables for this to be concrete. Toms with hens do tend to roost in the same vicinity unless pressured. Didn't say same tree but same area. A lone gobbler is known to travel 5 miles a day. How many guys see the same flock in the same field day in and day out? A lot. Way to many variables for this to be any meaning

Listen to the podcast you might change your opinion.

[Sixes]

As a Georgia boy, this doesn't surprise me at all.

I was astounded when I hunted Rios in Texas and they roosted in the same tree every day

[trkehunr93]

Listened to the Meateater podcast Michael Chamberlain was on yesterday while at work, interesting stuff.  These roost sites are very similar to leks that sage grouse use out west.  Good roosting locations that allow for the gobble to carry over a long distance and be heard.  You gotta remember we ask the gobbler to do opposite of what normal breeding would be by making them come to us rather than what hens naturally do.  The defense mechanism of not sleeping in the same place twice comes into it as well.  Was also interesting to listen about how our hunting start dates may be the real reason we are seeing declines in populations, he quoted another biologist by the name of Bill, don't remember the last name, who brought this up in the 70's and 80's.  Give it a listen, the mans been chasing turkeys since he was a kid and comes at it from the academic side of things. 


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[turkey_slayer]

To many variables for this to be concrete. Toms with hens do tend to roost in the same vicinity unless pressured. Didn't say same tree but same area. A lone gobbler is known to travel 5 miles a day. How many guys see the same flock in the same field day in and day out? A lot. Way to many variables for this to be any meaning

Listen to the podcast you might change your opinion.

I am. Had it bookmarked for a few days till I get time. But it still want disprove what I'm saying. I can watch and hear the same flock at the house everyday. 6 toms with 18 hens. Im not saying he's wrong but every gobbler? No way. To many variables. Or do you believe when you hear a bird from the same spot 2 days in a row its a different bird? Did Tom call Jake the prior day and say hey you can have that spot I want be back? I'm not trying to be a smart butt or argumentative but surely everyone thats hunted for a short time has ran into birds that you know where they will be at daybreak.

[g8rvet]

I take issue with: "But it also makes sense to use a different roost each night, at least to some degree. Don't go to the same place each night and gobble there the next morning, doing so allows predators to key in on your locations."  If he had said Gobblers are genetically programmed through natural selection to move around as the ones that do not are more vulnerable to predators (both non-human as well as human), then I could agree.  No chance a gobbler can reason they need to move around.  Hence why some folks kill the bird that tends to not move around as much.  I do think he is mostly right though about Easterns.

[Paulmyr]

To many variables for this to be concrete. Toms with hens do tend to roost in the same vicinity unless pressured. Didn't say same tree but same area. A lone gobbler is known to travel 5 miles a day. How many guys see the same flock in the same field day in and day out? A lot. Way to many variables for this to be any meaning

Listen to the podcast you might change your opinion.

I am. Had it bookmarked for a few days till I get time. But it still want disprove what I'm saying. I can watch and hear the same flock at the house everyday. 6 toms with 18 hens. Im not saying he's wrong but every gobbler? No way. To many variables. Or do you believe when you hear a bird from the same spot 2 days in a row its a different bird? Did Tom call Jake the prior day and say hey you can have that spot I want be back? I'm not trying to be a smart butt or argumentative but surely everyone thats hunted for a short time has ran into birds that you know where they will be at daybreak.

He talks about this in the podcast. Turkeys are like people. They are not exactly alike but show general behavioral characteristics. I tend to believe a biologist/hunter who has studied the bird his whole adult life with more tools in his arsenal than what he hears from his house.

[LaLongbeard]

I haven't listened to the podcast yet but will. I will also add I can say with 100% certainty I have seen a Gobbler roost on the same ridge 3 nights in a row, and the same Pine tree two consecutive nights. There is no doubt it was the same Gobbler because there was no other Gobbler in this block of woods and when I killed him there was not another gobble heard or new Gobbler tracks on that ridge for the remainder of the season.  Not hard to be sure you are dealing with the same Gobbler when there is not another one around. Some of the National forests I hunt in La are one Gobbler to about every 3 miles and that's no exaggeration.