Major problem with Longbeard shells!!!

[BandedSpur]

Have been hearing about some issues with current production Winchester LB shells. Was helping a buddy with patterning his 21" Rem 870 a couple of days ago. He shoots a .665 Undertaker choke tube and Winch LB 3-1.75-5s. With early manufactured shells he was averaging around 130/10, not great for that shell but decent. Shells bought last year averaged 109/10. Shells bought this year averaged 55/10 for three shots - 68, 60, and 37/10. Yes you read that correctly - 37/10". That is beyond pathetic. And yes, we were shooting at big paper, from a rest, barrel bore-snaked between shots as is his practice, at 60 degrees in calm conditions. Not my first rodeo.

So I let him borrow a couple of my chokes that are normally superstars in Remington barrels. My IC BDS .665 did 70/10 and my JH .660 did 37/10. Those shells in these three choke tubes are not capable of taking a gobbler at 40 yards.

So, if you shoot LBs and bought shells this year, be sure you pattern them before you go out and miss or wound a big gobbler.

[buzzman2]

Missed a bird at 35 yards. Found my wad and this is what it looks like. Also found the fiber disk that sits behind the wad. It has 3 pellet strikes which means it somehow ended up in front of some of the shot. Close inspection of the wad, I can see that one of the petals has a very clear place with the machining marks of the chamber imprinted. Like the wad glued momentarily to the chamber wall. This caused the wad to crumple, spin in the bore, and probably came out spinning laterally.

I can see shiny resin adhered to the front portion of my chamber.

Anyone else see mangled wads?



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[tnanh]

The wads with torn petals also worried me and I posted about it a couple years ago. I still shoot some older magnum 6s in a Sumtoy .665 choke and get 200 in ten at 40 yards consistently with no petals ripped off the wads. Jellyhead .660 and .665 ripped wads severely as well as a Rhino .660. The other problems you saw I did not notice but havent shot any newer lot numbers.

[buzzman2]

I am shooting a carlson .660.

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[BandedSpur]

Wads are shredded with current production LBs (3"-1.75-5s) from a Benelli with factory .665 choke and an 870 with Undertaker .665, JH .660, and IC .665. Don't know if that contributed to our poor results or not.

[tnanh]

When I had the torn petals I had also used a carlson 660 that tore them. I shot a Carlson 670 and they were much better. My numbers were just ok but my poi moved around like a lot of people complain about with the Long beards. I was mostly shooting the 4s. These were in my 870 with the 1 3/4 loads at the higher velocity. I had some of the lower velocity 1 7/8 #6 loads and tried them with a single shot threaded for Rem choke and the Sumtoy 665. Patterns were unbelievable consistent, no torn petals and consistent poi. I dont know if it was the choke or lower velocity or changing to 6s but my guess is it was both the choke and lower velocity. Best I remember in the old post someone else had mangled wads and said their patterns were not affected.

[buzzman2]

I wish I had the ability to provide pictures of the chamber imprint on the wad. I am quite sure it was glued to the chamber wall at some point, which seems impossible. I wonder if the melting point of the liquid buffer was lowered in newer shells.

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[Longshanks]

All I know is I had a gimme shot at a gobbler at 30-35yds a few years ago. Must have hit the turkey with the fringe of the pattern and had the gun on him. Chased the turkey about 150yds through the woods with my gun jammed until he took flight. At that point I didn't hunt with them any more and went back to shooting XX 3" 6's 140-160's in a 10 @ 40. Shot some LB's recently out of a 870SM/Extra Full .687 at the range and shot 230's at 35yd with the 3" and 3.5" 6's. Just don't trust them enough to Hunt with them. Have had the POI drift around shooting the gun off a vise, patterns cut in half, mangled wads, and now head numerous reports about the shells not firing. If you just go out and shoot a few shells with LB's they look like the best thing since sliced bread. Do some in depth testing and inconsistencies and issues is what you find. Never had these issues with any of the Winchester lead turkey loads. Have cases of the Win XX, HV, Super X loads. Will revisit the LB's at a later time. 
Selling my boxes of Win LB's to the local hardware store.

[old3toe]

 I also posted before about issues with win Longbeard shells. I had major issues with the poi moving around everywhere as well. I killed several birds with them ( 3.5" 2oz 4's) then one day I completely missed a bird. Everything was perfect about the shot and distance except I just didn't connect with him. It really bugged me. So I went to the bench and commenced to shooting patterns at 40 yards off of bags with the same setup, red dot, and shells. I was astonished at what I was seeing. Every single pattern I shot had a different poi. Some the core was almost completely off of the 8"x12" target stapled to the backing paper I was using. Clearly equal to clean misses on a live bird. I started to blame the optic at first then thought I'm not changing anything and decided to try a different lead load at the big paper to see if they too would be wondering around, which would indeed point to an optic problem. Had zero issues with those loads. Then tried another load. No problems with them either. I was done with long beards after that! I wouldn't shoot them again If they were free. I have to have full confidence in my equipment and more importantly it's not fair to the turkeys that we hunt to possibly be wounded or injured only to die a slow and painful death caused by subpar ammo or any other equipment for that matter.

[Kylongspur88]

I had an issue with a batch of #5 I bought last year. It's back to the good old 3.5 winn high velocity for me.

[Ranman]

Any updates on recent Lb ammo? Has this issue been resolved? Impressed with some of the patterns and was thinking about getting some for my 12ga.

[owlhoot]

Any updates on recent Lb ammo? Has this issue been resolved? Impressed with some of the patterns and was thinking about getting some for my 12ga.

Problems have been going on ever since they came out.
Clark Bush (ALLABOUTSHOOTING) did some breakdown of the resin inconsistencies a few years back.