Getting Downhearted

[Happy]

Punisher, I can honestly see points to your post. However I can't wrap my head around being mad about what someone else decides to do with property that they own. It's a slippery slope and I am not saying that people that lock up chunks of land aren't greedy in some ways. Maybe they are or maybe they are just tired of the trash and bickering.The key point is that they either have or are paying for that right. Like many I wish that hunting got back to the simpler days. I despise the trophy hunting, Instagram, facebook, farm raising game and cameras everywhere. It's the world we live in now and as long as i dont have to do it i am ok with it. I hunt purely to make me happy. I have personally been blessed and have had the opportunity to hunt a lot of land. Some of it Is leased with a pile of other people and some I dont. I still have permission for 2 200 acre farms that I have never even scouted. Maybe I am just getting old but having grown up dirt poor and hunting public my whole life i just dont feel the need for my own private oasis. I like hunting pressured animals. It keeps me on my game. Like I said earlier, i dont want to seem harsh but I would hate seeing the day a property owner does not have the freedom to do with their property as they wish. I really hope you find happiness in hunting but I would suggest basing it off of things you can control. Life is to short to be upset about what others do. Good luck.

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[Sixes]

Just trying to vent. Obviously, by some of your remarks, you don't remember what it used to be like to gain permission with a friendly handshake. Happy, I think the people leasing ground are the selfish ones. They are afraid of competition. Unable to kill something unless they are the only people hunting there. I have tagged out on longbeards for the last twenty three years on heavily pressured private ground. I just hate seeing where hunting is going. Obviously the generation of "I don't want any competition. I can't handle it." Just for general knowledge, not bragging at all, with my wife's and my salary, we are WELL above the national average, but I do not lease out of principal. Why would I take that money away from my family for a stupid deer or turkey?  Sorry. Rant over. Just so everyone is clear, in now way do I blame the landowners.

Feel free to rant, that's what forums are for.

You say "you don't remember...." and you are right, as I stated earlier, leasing in Georgia has been prevalent since the 70's and my first lease as an adult was 1988, the year I graduated high school. The days of just hunting someone's land has never been available in my lifetime.

I'm afraid if you will not lease out of principal, you may be out of any private land in the next 10 years to hunt.

[eggshell]

I'm afraid if you will not lease out of principal, you may be out of any private land in the next 10 years to hunt.

This is exactly why it hurts recruitment of new hunters.

Example: There are approximately 500 acres surrounding my property that used to be owned by one family for near 100 years. They were very kind hearted and let anyone local hunt whenever. A privilege some abused. I bet within a year maybe 50 different people hunted, hiked or looked for morels on it, maybe more. The eldest daughter turned it over to her son just before she died. An out of state group of 4 guys leased it from him and instantly posted it to the hilt. It was the place many took there kids because she had the trails maintained. They even made a deal with a local to patrol it. Now only 4 hunt it ( except for the poachers who are delighted no one is on it)  and they only come a week or two out of the year. After she turned it over vandals practically destroyed the family cemetery and she was devastated. when the neighbors were allowed to hunt we all helped keep the property up now it's over grown and vandalized., but her son gets his $10,000.00 to blow. I don't think she would be happy. Multiply this by thousands and many people quit hunting out of disgust. as i said earlier, there are not huge plots of public land here.

If you lease and think you are the only one hunting it...dream on baby. The poachers love non resident leases.  It's a secure place to poach, the honest people won't trespass.

[Crghss]

Do I remember? Where I grew up in PA I'd shoot pheasants walking out my back door. Ponds all around to jump ducks on. Farms in every directions and I was free to use all of it.

Today? All developed with houses. Big acreage that still exists is owned by non hunters. No leasing because no one allows hunting.

I live in FL now and beat the public land. Craziest hunting I have ever done. I refuse to lease but do travel out west.

[Punisher]

Once again, and I feel I must reiterate it, I am in no way against landowners against leasing their ground. They have bought and paid for it. They have every right to do with it as they please. I agree totally. As hunters, we have brought this on ourselves. Public ground is not always a viable option. There is none close to me. I wish there was, but if it is not there, then you cannot hunt it.

[nativeks]

I bought some land, and I am looking to buy more. Live life Dave Ramsey style with no debt except the house.

[Punisher]

I bought some land, and I am looking to buy more. Live life Dave Ramsey style with no debt except the house.

I agree live life debt free, but my wife and I both drive around ninety miles a day round trip to have good jobs. Driving beaters is not an option. We are both on call 24/7 for 365 days a year. Our vehicles must be reliable. I enjoy taking my family on vacations, as do they. Would it not be selfish for me to deny them that in order for me to spend thousands on a "pastime?" I am sorry, but I feel it is. Maybe I have my priorities wrong.

[roberthyman14]

Leasing property is nothing new in the south.  Most of the time the landowners like compensation for the land. Sometimes just paying the tax bill works.  We are about to reach out to a family to lease 1,000 acres that has sat vacant for many years.  Gonna cost us a pretty good chunk.  Best part is I still and will hunt public ground. Our public is heavily pressured but you learn how to hunt people then the animals.  Deer are not the biggest on public but still some brutes around.  Nothing more satisfying then killing a turkey that has heard every walmart call made to him for a few weeks then you go work him and have an opportunity to kill him.  Lots of people complain about public land but have never hunted it and just heard bad stories,or dont know how to hunt without a feeder and food plot. The challenge of finding a killing is the best part. 

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[Punisher]

Leasing property is nothing new in the south. 

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And now that same mentality has been brought to Kentucky from the south. Listen guys, I am so sorry if I offended anyone, I am just getting fed up with the road hunting is going down. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I apologize if I did. And so noone is offended, I also consider myself a southerner. LOL. As far as leasing goes, I just can't believe that anyone feels that it is their "moral" obligation to pay a landowner to hunt on them. Extravagant amounts wouldn't be paid, and a person would do it closer to home if that was the case. I have tried, but the amounts they want for a lease where I live are ridiculous because I live in a "trophy" deer area and the prices for a lease are becoming unreachable. Maybe I am wrong. I hope that I am. I see it as a means to have the upper hand on the other hunter. To eliminate competition and to have the biggest "trophy." People wouldn't travel 10, 12, or even more hours to deer hunt where I live just to "ensure they have somewhere to hunt." It is to "one up" the next guy. To increase one's ego at any cost. Sorry fellows I might have a totally biased view, and I regret it if I do.

[Happy]

I am not at all offended or upset punisher and I hope I haven't offended you. I spent my entire life around coal miners and ironworker so I am pretty thick skinned.I tend to say what I think and while I am not out to make people mad I just dont sugar coat it. I think you have a lot of good points in all of this and I agree that most of this is all fueled by the desire to make success easier by the hunter. If private leases, food plots/bait piles, trail cameras, heated blinds ect didn't make it easier then no_one would do it. But that's the world we live in now. I hope it blows over but I doubt it will anytime soon. Money,the need for attention and the internet have some huge consequences.

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[Happy]

You know a couple years ago I was dealing with some stuff that was really frustrating me and upsetting me. I was talking to my grandad one day and he said something that while humorous made a lot of sense. It was simply this"if you get in a 15 minute argument with an idiot and get mad just remember the last 10 minutes are your fault". That has stuck with me. If I dont like it or respect it then I walk away from it. There is no point spending life being angry or upset about stuff. How someone hunts or lives their life is their business and I dont expect everyone to see it the same as me. I honestly hope you dont let this stuff ruin your outlook on hunting. There is plenty of good to be found and if you stick to your principles then you should be happy because that's all that matters. Dont be mad at the leasers, food plotters or bait watchers, if that's their means of happiness then so be it. Doesnt mean you have to pay attention to it one bit.

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[eggshell]

the amounts they want for a lease where I live are ridiculous because I live in a "trophy" deer area and the prices for a lease are becoming unreachable.

I am in Ohio and we have really got slammed by the trophy attitude. Your right punisher it's ridiculous. I had one of those TV shows ask me to film on my land and my family's,  I sent them packing with their ears burning. A good friend of mine guided for one of the big turkey names and after a couple years of being used as a dog and no bone to chew on he quit.

I don't know what you all pay for leases. but around here land runs $20.00 -35.00 / acre for land.  Good land may get more. I have noticed a new thing now, some companies leasing land. Some near me is leased by a construction company for their officers/clients. It's a tax right off. That's where you get the slobs. It all started about 20 years ago when the local paper company brought in a new forester from down south. He went to the board and told them they could make $500,000.00 if they leased hunting rights. Up to that time they had a public use agreement with the Ohio Division of Wildlife and their thousands of acres were public access. I believe they got tax breaks on that too. Now they have sold all their land to land companies and it's all privately controlled and most of it leased. Of course they had every right to do all this, but sometimes it's about more than legal rights.....it's simply a matter of good conscious and morals. Someone stated earlier, "you reap what you sow"; I think that land that is leased for profit should be taxed at corporate rates not forest land and agricultural use land. Boy landowners would scream then. Maybe I should write my legislatures and suggest this.

Hey this is the most active this forum has been in a while......finally something to talk about. It does feel good to at least bitch and get it off our chest. Like a good trip to the bathroom....you feel good after dumping a load. That's why they call it releaving yourself

[Southerngobbler]

I have purposely moved twice in my life to find better hunting, once I moved out west to experience everything it had to offer and 10 years latter I moved back south but made sure I located very near a large track of public land. I'm sure a lot of you can't do that because of bla,bla bla but that fact is everyone really does have an opportunity to do what they want in life.
If you wan't it bad enough you make it happen, other wise you roll back over into that warm bed and come up with reasons why it ain't your fault.

[eggshell]

you are right on target southern gobbler. Yes we all set our priorities, but still that does not always mean someone's view of a situation does not have merit. There was a time when I put a very high priority on my hunting....even at the cost of missing almost every one of my oldest daughters birthdays from toddler to late teenage years. It damaged our relationship, because she always thought dad would rather hunt turkeys than be with me. Not until I was older and changed my life through Christ that I saw where my true treasures were. They are in those I love from Lord to family and friends. They will always be my first choice from now on....if hunting suffers, so be it. It is my choice and my priority I am content to live in it and be happy with it. That does not remove me from having a view on what I feel is a trend that is harming our sport. It is both personal and impersonal. I want all to have an opportunity at fair chase. If push comes to shove i will give up my hunting, but not without effort and rebuttal. A free and just America is "for all", not just those who can afford it or make it happen. what we see happening in hinting is also happening within our society as a whole. If we want change it is the heart of the people who must foster it, to simply concede "that is the way it is ". is not within my DNA. I think that is what drove punisher to make his original post...it wasn't greed, but a heart felt opinion that there was an injustice within our pursuit of sport.

[nativeks]

One thing I have learned in my time on earth, is that change is inevitable. Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome.