Where is this ship headed?

[MK M GOBL]

No denying our numbers are going down, but I will always do my part in the fight.

Personally, I have been mentoring for the past 15 years, both young men & ladies and some that have not been so young, but it is part of what is in me and what I do. I teach those about conservation, caring for our lands & waters, hunter ethics, woodsmanship and other hunting skills. It is not in some to do this, never knowing what it does for the soul.

I'm not here to judge you by how you hunt, some may get "Preachy" with their OPINION but that's all it is... Just keep your hunts legal, from there as I say "Just tools in the shed". Learned it long ago not worry about what others think, I know who I am.


MK M GOBL

[shaman]

Been mulling over the trends in hunting and wonder what others opinions are.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
B:  All this good and wonderful because it is helping recruit new hunters and makes hunting more enjoyable.

I really don't care what others do as it has no bearing on my life but I feel a stronger draw to option A.

In KY and every other state in our region, it is illegal to bait turkeys. It is wrong.  It does the birds no good.  Period.  Food plots are another issue.  I know there are a bunch of guys who think food plots are anathema.  I'm sorry for them.  I think part of it is a lack of understanding and I also see a lot of jealousy in it.  The truth of it is that gobblers are still hard to hunt whether there is a food plot involved or not.  Furthermore, any plot that gets planted is good for the flock in general and for a bunch of other wildlife too.

There seems to be this idea among some turkey hunters that their way is not only the best, but that their way is the only way and the rest should be shunned.  I've got a 200 acre farm. I haven't hunted on public land in 20 years.  I stopped guessing where the birds were going to be about 15 years ago.  Nothing changes year to year except the number of birds and their willingness to come to calls.  I feel like I've been repeating the same game of chess since 2002.  However, it does not make it any easier.  The birds still win in the end. 

Believe me when I say that introducing a food plot into the mix does absolutely nothing to their huntability.  Yes, it may entice them to a particular spot. However, the birds tend to feed out in the middle and it can be very hard to get them in gun range.  Most of a plot's benefit comes after season is over. 

Having said all that, I'm not planting this year. Chalk it up to too little effect for too much cost. 

Turkey hunting in any form is a bit of a joke.  I don't mean that in a derogatory way.  I mean it is something you either get or your don't.  I've taken a bunch of guys out.  Only one has stuck with it.  Among my sons, I've got one, #3, that is a better hunter than me.  I have another, #2, that kind of goes through the motions, but really prefers squirrels.  #1 doesn't hunt at all.  Me?  If I had to schlep endless miles in a vest, running and gunning, I'd have hung it up ages ago.  On the other hand, the idea of walking out a half mile or so from the house and calling birds is fun. 

I have to say that probably just as fun for me has been going out in the month or so before season and recording the birds for my podcasts.  That and the audio I get recording some of my hunts my big thrill. 

[longspur]

He said son that old turkey won't always gobble, but if he keeps coming to calls and no hen.. he'll quit all together ??.
[/quote]
I'm convinced turkeys don't gobble like they used to. Know for certain they don't in my area. The place I hunt the most has a good population and I've heard not one gobble in two years. I'm not sure if they learned not to gobble or if it's a personality trait. I was told years ago that there is turkeys out there that never gobble. Can the young turkeys learn from older ones not to gobble or did the ones that gobble get killed and the quiet ones live to pass on their quiet genes.
  I despise hunting from a blind. I just don't feel like I'm part of the woods. Feel like I'm sitting in my living room shooting out the window. That's not to belittle hunting from a blind, just my personal preference. I can sit by a tree and call one of these turkeys up. Pain level reaches 7 or 8 but it's what I like to do. I learned to hunt squirrels as a kid sitting by a tree and later hunt deer sitting by a tree. Maybe that's why I like to hunt turkeys sitting by a tree.  You're not going to take a kid or anybody new to the sport there and see one of those toms in range without a blind. When doing so you are teaching them that's the way you do it. So we really have no choice. As I stated earlier I didn't learn to hunt turkeys the traditional way, it just grew on me. I believe as long as people hunt whichever way they enjoy, the sport will be around for a long time.
 

[Happy]

I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying  capacity of the land its bad. I think far more  damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.

[PSEoutlaw07]

Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.

Words right out of my mouth! 100% agree

[shaman]

I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying  capacity of the land its bad. I think far more  damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.

The long term benefit to the hunter from a food plot is that you end up with a few more birds, and the flocks remain fairly stable.  For the birds themselves, having a food plot or two around buffers the birds from the boom and bust that nature usually presents.  Around our place, we have cicadas-- at least 2 major broods.  When there is a cicada brood emerging, a bunch of things happen:

1)  More poults survive, because in the critical May/June time frame, they have this mass of  big bugs to eat.
2) The cicadas prune the oak trees.  Usually this means the acorn crop goes bust that fall.
3)  The pruning causes more new growth in the oak trees, so the next year sees an acorn boom.

By having alternatives around the turkey numbers stay much more constant.  That whole boom/bust things resonates for years.  Some years, there seem to be no hens.  Other years, there seems to be no gobblers.  One year we had a plague of Jakes.  Another year, we had so many 2 yr olds that they went gay on us.  They stayed in single-sex flocks and would only display for each other and chased off all the hens. Probably all of these things trace back to the two cicada emergences that happen about 7-8 years apart around here.

Having good habitat management alleviates at least some of the pressures. Food plots are just one of the tools.  Mind you, none of this involved hunting over food plots. The plots help out pre- and post- season.

[GobbleNut]

A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.

Sure, this is happening to a degree, but what we are witnessing in our society are the affects of urbanization combined with technology and an ever-increasing array of adrenaline-inducing alternatives to hunting.  The newer generation is faced with making a choice between a pastime (hunting) that is increasingly facing alienation in modern society, and the much-easier-to-obtain thrills found in technology and an urban existence. 

Having said that, although hunter numbers are steadily decreasing, those that become hunters, and end up sticking with it, are doing so because they REALLY want to.  As such, they are becoming very proficient at it,...and also very skilled.  I also believe that the newer generations of hunters have a much clearer picture of what society expects from them as hunters. 

We are evolving from an attitude of "by God, it is my RIGHT to go out and hunt and kill stuff,...and I'll do it how I damn well want to", to a new ethic of "I understand that I am granted the PRIVELEGE to hunt by a much larger majority of non-hunters that accept what I do only if I do so with an ethic that fits their expectations of how I am to act while hunting,...and how I am to treat the animals I hunt and harvest".

As for the future of hunting, if we as hunters do not weed out the first attitude and abide by the second , we will surely, at some point in the future, lose the PRIVELEGE we have to hunt. 

B:  All this good and wonderful because it is helping recruit new hunters and makes hunting more enjoyable.

Recognizing everything from A above, recruiting new hunters is the proverbial double-edged sword.  Encouraging new hunters to start hunting only to try to preserve the hunting tradition is a mistake.  Kids and adults that wade through all the distractions put in front of them and then make the decision that they WANT to become hunters are the kind we need. 

Making hunters out of people that look at hunting only as a real-life video game with living targets is a very big mistake.  It will only hasten our demise.

[LaLongbeard]

I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying  capacity of the land its bad. I think far more  damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.

Agreed
I keep seeing people post, mad cause someone said something against food plots, then they go on for a paragraph or two about how much it helps wildlife and it's not cheating. Then for some reason they post a second time and say they don't hunt over the food plot lol. Same exact MO. I think hunting over a food plot is baiting plain and simple. If you plant food plots and don't hunt over them that's not baiting and I don't think anyone is saying it is. But I find it hard to believe your planting and not hunting over them, and jealousy has nothing to do with it.
What everyone here should understand Turkey hunting is not just 3-4 Saturday mornings and a couple  vacation days  to some of us. My whole year job, finances etc are planned according to hunting turkeys. I hunt every single day all day for 7-8 weeks in several states each year living in a tent for most of it. Everything else is on pause until I'm done period. I understand most people don't take it this serious but some do. If you want to be a dabbler or part timer have at it but when you come on a forum with serious dedicated Turkey hunters your going to hear there opinions when you cut corners. Nothing you could possibly say or post will change this no matter how many times you post a Fred Bear meme lol. There is a traditional way of hunting turkeys that hasn't changed much since the beginning of modern Turkey hunting when only Mississippi,Alabama and Arkansas had a season long before decoys,or pop up blinds or plastic shotguns etc. Although not as many anymore were still here and you might as well stop getting hurt feelings because some of us couldn't care any less about what you think

[guesswho]

When I first got on this ship, 1960's it was a Jon boat and we had a paddle.   Now a lot of folks have moved up a notch or 10 to a Donzi with triple 350's on it, and all the electronics ( GPS etc) to go with it.   I've been in the Donzi a handful of times.  Just enough to remind me how much I love my jon boat and paddle.  I admit I did add an electric trolling motor to help me get back upstream.

[kdfester]

In my neck of the woods it seems all Facebook does is bring to light the Haves and Havenots in this world.  Most any local with a trophy being bragged over can mainly be traced back to the first day on Grandpappys farm.  364 remaining days of the year never a foot in the woods.  Spotlight the night before and climb into their stand or spot of last years kill.  To me this is the product of our forefathers "stayput" or coming of age and getting daddy's spot.  Once that element is removed, majority couldn't tell you a fresh pile of droppings from a handful of raisins.  Jealousy,  I'll admit some sure but that I believe is what is doing the tradition in.  An exclusive club. The ability to walk over miles of prime ground isn't here anymore.  Too many posters and lack of sustainable habitat on our local public land.

[eggshell]

I pretty much agree with most of the post with a few tweaks here and there. Here is my breakdown.

1.) People make the choice how they do something, technology is only a tool.
2.) If you want a new person to do something a certain way then teach them the correct way. People usually approach something the way they were taught.
3) Hunter's numbers are declining, but we won't ever go away
4.) Access to land is a bigger problem
5.) Leasing of hunting rights is pushing more people out of the sport than how they do it
6.) We had slobs in the past and we'll have slobs in the future.
7.) I pretty much agree with all Gobblenut said and that worries me LOL

My take on food plots: They are not necessary and mostly just concentrate game. They do provide some benefit, but they are mostly an elaborate form of baiting. Yeah I know I'm in trouble! Nature usually provides plenty of food, if you want to enhance that then use habitat mngt.  I have a friend who spent a fortune on food plots. Then I got him to start managing the habitat with select cutting travel lanes and more....he just told me a while back in the 40 years he's owned his land he's never seen so much game. He hasn't put a food plot out in years.

[PSEoutlaw07]

I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying  capacity of the land its bad. I think far more  damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.

The long term benefit to the hunter from a food plot is that you end up with a few more birds, and the flocks remain fairly stable.  For the birds themselves, having a food plot or two around buffers the birds from the boom and bust that nature usually presents.  Around our place, we have cicadas-- at least 2 major broods.  When there is a cicada brood emerging, a bunch of things happen:

1)  More poults survive, because in the critical May/June time frame, they have this mass of  big bugs to eat.
2) The cicadas prune the oak trees.  Usually this means the acorn crop goes bust that fall.
3)  The pruning causes more new growth in the oak trees, so the next year sees an acorn boom.

By having alternatives around the turkey numbers stay much more constant.  That whole boom/bust things resonates for years.  Some years, there seem to be no hens.  Other years, there seems to be no gobblers.  One year we had a plague of Jakes.  Another year, we had so many 2 yr olds that they went gay on us.  They stayed in single-sex flocks and would only display for each other and chased off all the hens. Probably all of these things trace back to the two cicada emergences that happen about 7-8 years apart around here.

Having good habitat management alleviates at least some of the pressures. Food plots are just one of the tools.  Mind you, none of this involved hunting over food plots. The plots help out pre- and post- season.

I agree with you here!! I have never seen a negative impact from planting food plots. I mean I'm not that much into tv hunting but I don't think anyone could argue that Mark Drury or Lee Lakosky have overpopulation or unhealthy herds of deer or flocks of turkeys because of food plots and those guys definitely have the food plots.
I mean  in the original post you quoted, the guy said something about food plots bringing in too many animals and overpopulating the carrying capacity. I mean if you recruit a lot of deer or turkeys to your plots and there are soo many they eat it till there is nothing left, I feel confident the animals will just leave and go find natural food like they are programmed to do

[POk3s]

Brings as I'll be 28 this month and am ate up with most things outdoors, I'd like to chime in on this.

While I no longer feel that I'm one of the "young kids", I'm definitely not far removed from it. I also apologize if this has been brought up, but I didn't feel the need to read 3 pages about food plots.

I grew up in wyoming and still live here. For my 16th birthday (Birthday is on April 22nd) my dad asked me what I wanted to do. I wanted to go turkey hunt. Neither one of us had ever even seen a turkey I don't think. But we went to the black hills because we had heard all about it. We drove around public land blowing on our crow calls and probably doing more harm than good. It's legal to shoot turkeys with rifles and on the last day we found turkeys and killed them with rifles. We had a great time and were well within the law as we celebrated and high fived. Although I never heard any flack from it, I'm sure when I posted on forums there were plenty of people who didn't think that was cool. Since then, I've spot and stalked birds, called birds in, ambushed em, and killed em about every way possible. I know I got flack for spot and stalking them instead of calling them in in my early years, but I enjoyed it, and again, I was well within the law.

Since then I've evolved and I hunt turkeys how I enjoy which is on public land, running and gunning, and trying to outwit any birds I can find. I go into my hunts full of enjoyment and a "great for you" attitude. I don't think I'm high and mighty and I don't pass judgement as long as its legal. My dad would rather sit in a blind all day, relax, and hope one walks by nowadays. That's great! Some guys I know still shoot em with rifles, and while I don't bring mine on trips anymore, that's great! If some rancher shoots one out of his kitchen window I chuckle and say "that's great!" When somebody says, "you're going all the way to Iowa to kill a bird I say, "yes I really enjoy hunting them, and if you never want to go....THATS GREAT!"

We've got way too many problems in this world to be worried about how another person turkey hunts. If it's against the law then that's of course different. Hunt how you want to hunt and enjoy yourself. I've taken a lot of my friends on turkey hunts and they thought it was going to be a cake walk. Most of them don't come anymore. Some of them that do would rather kill one with a rifle than go home empty handed. I'm not like that anymore, but that's great!

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is, the hunting community would we a better place if when some young kid told you they went to the black hills and shot a gobbler with a rifle, that instead of giving them grief and telling them how you think it should be done, and how you do it now, you simply say....THATS GREAT!

[Happy]

I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?

[M,Yingling]

I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?

all i know is growing up we didnt use blinds if u didnt stay still and bird or deer seen u u didnt get one and after wards u got ear full from the old man lol   over all i think it made me a better hunter you learned the skills  ,, we shot turkey with same 20 ga load we was using for squirrel hunting  got a little old bumped and  ( could carry that gun ) up to 12 ga ,,,  we earned the right to go hunting if u couldnt hold a gun and shoot it u didnt go  ,,,their was no tripods and just pull a trigger ,, food plots was the nearest corn field or  old apple orchard what ever u hunted around and knew where the game was coming to that area lol  ,,,,and sure i have bumped up to better shells and guns  but what i was taught  as a youngster stayed with me