Where is this ship headed?

[Delmar ODonnell]

Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.

It is sad to see how many people my age treat the outdoors. I refuse to hunt with some of my closest friends because of this. I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger. Too many people now go hunting for the sole purpose to tell people they shot something, even if it took no skill or effort on their part to do so.

Granted, these are people my age who have been hunting before, but just don't have the passion to really immerse themselves in the experience. I can't knock them for that, because there are things I'm not passionate about, but I would get much more satisfaction from taking someone who shares that passion and desire to learn just lacks the means and experience in the woods.

[RutnNStrutn]

Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.

[RutnNStrutn]

I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger.

I totally understand that sentiment. In my opinion, this again falls back on us as hunters. I think it all comes from whoever taught you how to hunt. My Dad taught me to hunt, duck hunting. We enjoyed getting out in the marsh way early, setting up our decoys, and then enjoying nature. We watched the beauty of how many more stars you could see than back in town. We saw shooting stars. We heard hogs foraging in nearby marshes. We heard deer snorting. We watched night give way to the dawn, and listened to the songbirds wake up, and occasionally even got to hear a turkey gobble. We took in the majesty of thousands of ducks flying over head. We didn't take passing shots. Dad only let us shoot ducks that were cupped and had their landing gear down.
My Dad taught me to enjoy the beauty of nature, and that was what hunting was about. If you harvested some game while you were enjoying nature, that was just the icing on the cake. To this day, I'm still like that. I love enjoying nature, and killing a critter is a bonus. Do I get frustrated when I'm in a dry spell? Sure I do. I think we all do. But if you can't enjoy nature, you're missing out on what's great about hunting.

[tha bugman]

"Life it too short to be concerned about what others think or do.  Just be true to yourself, surround yourself with like-minded people, ignore the negativity, stay positive and enjoy your own style of hunting." - Warren Womack

[ChiefBubba]

The "ship" is running aground with all the bickering. Decoys, blinds, crossbows, TSS and even the camo pattern topics usually get an argument started. Like it or not guys, Facebook and other social media are what a lot of younger people relate to and learn from. I mentioned Old Gobbler's Facebook page on this forum a month ago and the replies surprised me because most sounded like I want you to hunt with the devil himself. These newbies often don't know a thing about hunting, but want to learn. They don't know 30 yards from a city block. I see it a lot when a group of kids are shooting at a duck 80 yards high because they had no one to mentor them. We started a new 35 year old hunter last year and the things we take for granted, he didn't have a clue. I'm planning on taking a young hunter turkey hunting this year to help him shoot his his Tom. Smile boys and girls this hunting thing is supposed to be fun!

I couldn't agree more with this. I was at the NWTF convention 2 weeks and attended a seminar on this very topic. Cuz Strickland had the stat of there was 19 million hunters in 1980 now there's only 11 million. Here's an article
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Also in this seminar was a guy named Jeremiah Doughty from Southern California he say's he gets so many death threats he has his own FBI agent. He has a thing called from field to plate teaching people to cook wild game. He started a dialogue with a guy that had threaten to kill him and his whole family. After time he was able to take that guy hunting.
He also has taken Gang bangers out hunting too. He took one kid out that they couldn't even give the kid a loaded gun. They gave him a single bullet when a deer came out.  That kid is now coming out of college and going to be a state Wildlife officer. I don't think I could do what he does.

But we are losing hunters all the time. One of the reason's it seem's like the woods are so crowded is because we have less and less wild areas to hunt. That's a major factor for decline to hard to get out and too many people.
Some of the responses here is Elitism at it's best. I challenge ever one on this thread to take out at least one new person hunting. Even better if it's someone that isn't like you. Bubba

[ChiefBubba]

Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.

Another great post Jimbo.

[TrackeySauresRex]

I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger.

I totally understand that sentiment. In my opinion, this again falls back on us as hunters. I think it all comes from whoever taught you how to hunt. My Dad taught me to hunt, duck hunting. We enjoyed getting out in the marsh way early, setting up our decoys, and then enjoying nature. We watched the beauty of how many more stars you could see than back in town. We saw shooting stars. We heard hogs foraging in nearby marshes. We heard deer snorting. We watched night give way to the dawn, and listened to the songbirds wake up, and occasionally even got to hear a turkey gobble. We took in the majesty of thousands of ducks flying over head. We didn't take passing shots. Dad only let us shoot ducks that were cupped and had their landing gear down.
My Dad taught me to enjoy the beauty of nature, and that was what hunting was about. If you harvested some game while you were enjoying nature, that was just the icing on the cake. To this day, I'm still like that. I love enjoying nature, and killing a critter is a bonus. Do I get frustrated when I'm in a dry spell? Sure I do. I think we all do. But if you can't enjoy nature, you're missing out on what's great about hunting.

^ Great memories JimBo. The inseparable bond that hunting has bought between us friends,fathers and son's or daughters. Now we're speaking the language 

[THattaway]

Don't care what others do. Prefer seat of the pants hunting myself. May have to work a little harder, walk further at times to find birds but it's more satisfying that way to me these days and I normally have the work flexibility and time to support it.

[tomstopper]

Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.

I agree with this 100%

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[tomstopper]

The "ship" is running aground with all the bickering. Decoys, blinds, crossbows, TSS and even the camo pattern topics usually get an argument started. Like it or not guys, Facebook and other social media are what a lot of younger people relate to and learn from. I mentioned Old Gobbler's Facebook page on this forum a month ago and the replies surprised me because most sounded like I want you to hunt with the devil himself. These newbies often don't know a thing about hunting, but want to learn. They don't know 30 yards from a city block. I see it a lot when a group of kids are shooting at a duck 80 yards high because they had no one to mentor them. We started a new 35 year old hunter last year and the things we take for granted, he didn't have a clue. I'm planning on taking a young hunter turkey hunting this year to help him shoot his his Tom. Smile boys and girls this hunting thing is supposed to be fun!

I couldn't agree more with this. I was at the NWTF convention 2 weeks and attended a seminar on this very topic. Cuz Strickland had the stat of there was 19 million hunters in 1980 now there's only 11 million. Here's an article
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Also in this seminar was a guy named Jeremiah Doughty from Southern California he say's he gets so many death threats he has his own FBI agent. He has a thing called from field to plate teaching people to cook wild game. He started a dialogue with a guy that had threaten to kill him and his whole family. After time he was able to take that guy hunting.
He also has taken Gang bangers out hunting too. He took one kid out that they couldn't even give the kid a loaded gun. They gave him a single bullet when a deer came out.  That kid is now coming out of college and going to be a state Wildlife officer. I don't think I could do what he does.

But we are losing hunters all the time. One of the reason's it seem's like the woods are so crowded is because we have less and less wild areas to hunt. That's a major factor for decline to hard to get out and too many people.
Some of the responses here is Elitism at it's best. I challenge ever one on this thread to take out at least one new person hunting. Even better if it's someone that isn't like you. Bubba

Very true and I agree.

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[silvestris]

Me, I am of the holier than thou school, and we have several openers for those who can qualify.

[Gobble!]

Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.

Between the Pinhoti Project and The Hunting Public I think are both great for the future generations.

100%

[aclawrence]

I think social media is what's "ruining" Hunting now. So many are just doing it for Instagram. Chasing likes and recognition. That desire is what pushes people to start breaking the rules and lying about what and where and how they killed whatever it is.  It's not just hunting. This seems to be the case in whatever arena the person is in.  The need for social gratification. It can be great to. I love seeing other people's success and getting to watch the Pinhoti Project and THP is awesome. I wish there was a way to fix the other issues but it's a culture problem.  I think taking out new hunters and showing them the way is our best chance to keep our sport headed in the right direction. And also supporting groups that support public land rights and conservation groups.


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[Delmar ODonnell]

Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.

I agree 100%, and I definitely do not want to come across as an elitist. I love the outdoors and want everyone who can to experience how great it can be. Technology, especially the internet and social media, has provided a platform for hunters to reach people than ever before. Any legal and ethical method of hunting that recruits new hunters and introduces people to outdoors I unequivocally support.

So to answer the original question B is that I think its great that new people are introduced to the outdoors and hunting, and I hope they develop a lifelong passion.

But to answer question A, I think these people who are starting out and want to learn how to hunt are vulnerable to advertisements of a "must have" product that will help them be a better hunter. If they rely too much on that product, it could slow their learning process of becoming a good hunter.

There is a wealth of information available to new hunters via the internet, and I think the trend toward hunting media on youtube that is more "experience" oriented rather than mainstream television shows that rely heavily on advertising and selling products helps all hunters.

[shaman]

I was on a forum about a decade ago that got attacked by group of Old Schoolers.   Any question about anything that was not up to their idea of traditional turkey hunting was derided and abused.  It was horrible.  It dang near ruined the forum, and chased away most newbies.

I'm a turkey hunting troglodyte by most standards, but I'm not a bigot.  Somewhere along the way I've hunted with a lot of the new fangled stuff, and just found it wanting.    I've got a pop-up blind, and I used it early on with my fidgeting sons.  It's 15 years old and looks brand new. If I'm looking at hunting through a 3-day rain it might come out.  I've hunted with decoys, but normally I find they aren't worth the trouble.  I'm still hunting with the same 3" 12 GA #4 lead load for over 20 years, and I'll probably keep on shooting pretty much the same for the next 20.  It's not because lead is traditional.  It's cheap, and it gets the job done.

Camo?  Yeah, I wear it, but none of it matches, and I'm just as happy wearing 30 yr old  DPMS fatigues as anything. 
Calls?  I've tried everything, and I learned to make my own.  Mine do just as good as the store-bought stuff.  They don't look like much, but I can call a turkey with them.

All the new stuff?  Look, once you get past the glitz, it comes down to weight.  If I'm going to schlep it around, it has to be worth the schlepping.  Turkeys are not THAT hard to hunt.  I don't need something clanking around in my bag if it isn't going to help.

What the Old Schoolers failed to realize is that most people do not see the benefit of only using a box call that Neil Cost himself made.  It ain't about turkey hunting smarts. It's about turkey hunting snobbery.  There's plenty of birds out there for everyone.  If you get your rocks off shooting birds with $9 turkey loads, fine.  If you can't put your butt down next to a big tree and call a turkey to you, do it the way you feel best.

One other thing about those Old Schoolers: Their whole premise was whacked.  Real old style turkey hunting involved sneaking under a tree with a 32-20 and popping them on the roost.  It was digging a trench, filling it with corn and waiting until you could get a whole flock with one shot.  It was about pouring corn in old bed springs.  All this new-fangled  shotgun-only -footing is all a fairly modern fabrication.  If you want to read about a real turkey hunter, read Fredrich Gerstacker's autobiography. 

Gotta run. See ya' later.