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Started by wvmntnhick, February 20, 2019, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: Fullfan on February 21, 2019, 03:00:28 PMI have killed my fair share of Bulls, some with the .338 win mag some with the 7 mag and several with a 300WSM. All about shot placement. Elk have a tremendous desire to live, and can take some lead. The gun I carry now and enjoy I is a Kimber Montane in WSM. Hand loaded 180 Barns TTSX shoot sub moa out to 200. Find one you like shoot it often and have fun..
Quote from: paboxcall on February 21, 2019, 12:11:30 PMI read an article years ago in one of the national mags (Outdoor Life, Sports Afield, etc.) quoting several western outfitters who'd much rather take a guy with his familiar .270 / .30-06 / .308 / 7-08 and who shoots it lights out, than any guy afraid of the recoil of a newly purchased stout magnum. And of those proven four, I'm taking the .308 or 7-08 because its a shorter case, shorter action and to the OP's point, better satisfies his requirement for a lightweight rifle.
Quote from: Tom Foolery on February 21, 2019, 10:14:53 AMQuote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 10:02:09 AMQuote from: Tom Foolery on February 21, 2019, 08:17:12 AMQuote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 06:21:32 AMQuote from: dirt road ninja on February 21, 2019, 05:43:24 AMWhen a new round comes out they still compare it to the old 06.Let's think this through. The 30-06 is a great 55 gr varmint gun yea? If so when these new tiny varmint calibers came out did they compare it to the "great 06"? When the .223 super short came out did they compare that? That's kinda my point. Apples to apples the 30-06 is a good mid range cartridge. It's a compromise on its ends. Leave it mid range where imo opinion it should be, is there any difference between that n a .270? Almost the same cartridge. Look at ballistics on lots of mid range guns. They're all close and all good rounds including the 30-06. Like I said is it "best" on varmints? Better than a 22-250? Faster than a .220 swift? Less damaging than say a .17? Let's go up, is it better than say a .300 w 180 grain bullet? More authoritive than a .338 or .375? Not apples to apples though and not 30-06 strong points. That's all I'm saying.Why would you change all the bullet weights? A 180 partition, accubond or ballistic tip would cover pretty much everything. I killed a 20lb bobcat with a 180 partition from a 30/06 @ 25yds and the exit was about the size of a quarter. That same bullet would handle moose, bears or anything else. You could say the same thing about a 300WM. Chamberings are more alike than different in killing power . It matters more where you hit them than what you hit them with. I've shot the 300win a lot and it does a good job but I've not seen it do things anything else wouldn't have done. A friend took one elk hunting and lost a good bull due to a shot that was a little far back. All that horsepower didn't make up for poor shooting. Had he had less recoil and more range time maybe he doesn't make a poor shot. Carrying a 10lb 4' long rifle that burns 70grs of powder for my style of hunting makes no sense. All my shots are within 400yds and nothing weighs over 300lbs, we will run into the occasional hog. Even if I went after elk I don't know if I'd take one of my magnums. Phil Shoemaker carried a 30/06 with 200gr of 220gr Partitions as a grizzly guide for years before he stepped up to the 458 win mag. Let's talk extremes, would you do beaver control work w it, take a kid to shoot squirrels? Like I said it's got plenty of options, not knocking the caliber that'd be silly but it's not a do it all w/0 compromise. You make a good point about bullets than you contradict yourself. It doesn't matter only where you hit em. If you use a thin jacketed poly tipped bullet it'll be much more violent expansion no matter how you hit em plus now you're thinking a straight broadside shot through the ribs or the shot is passed w a rifle??The accubond I'll be honest, not noslers best in my testing in my guns. A Sierr@ game king blows em away accuracy wise. They expand perfectly on deer, I'm not sure bout elk but it's what I'd bring. Sierr@ have an awful lot more accuracy awards too. I'll agree the bigger magnums make no sense if you count powder money wise but look at how many fellows here spend $50 bucks for 5 shells to shoot through a turkey at 25 yards. Guys this is no 30-06 bash so don't think it is. The round has more than proven itself. Why though did the bear guide go up to a bigger caliber? Cause he felt it was better. You're point about your style of hunting making no sense is on the money n that's what I said earlier. The round/gun isn't what works or is perfect for you, I or the guy next door. It's whats perfect for the op. Your absolutely right you still gotta shoot straight. A bad shot is a bad shot that's a fact. Another point to add to that and it's against the 300 win mag, lots of guys don't like shooting it and because of that it's absolutely a bad choice there. Every gun will have certain limitations or restrictions of sorts. If you notice you're agreeing with what I said. Weight, recoil, game, head, etc etc all must be considered. Here's another one. What about the overall fitness of the hunter? A healthy, strong young man may not worry about ten pounds, his young 80 pound daughter would right? On the very same hunt for the very same game 2 totally dif guns might side by side and be the "best." One size does not fit all nor is one caliber the best for everything w everybody. If you think so God bless ya, that's you're right tooWould I shoot beaver with a 30/06, yes. Would I shoot squirrels, it's illegal in TN and what does that have to do with anything? Lol. You come up with some weird crap I'll give you that. You started the 30-06 on varmints with 55gr Bullets. My response was simply why change bullets? If you're saving fur you're probably not hunting with a 30-06 anyways. He did go to a bigger caliber, the 30-06 and the 300 win are the same caliber, they're both .30 cals. They are different chamberings though. The .30 cal and .458 cal are very different. Why didn't he go to a 300win, well there's not much gain and they're the same caliber. I did not contradict myself. I said chamberings are more alike than different, and they are. I also said put a good bullet through the vitals at any angle and they're dead. Put a good bullet out of the vitals and you've invited yourself to a rodeo. I never said anything about a thin jacketed bullet, you did for some reason. I said GOOD bullet, stoutly constructed, good weight retention, you know.....a good bullet. So to simplify it for you take a chambering of your choice, put a good bullet in it, shoot them where you're supposed to and stuff dies. So far you're the only person that has brought varmints, squirrels, TSS and other randomness into this thread. No one has said one chambering is the best at everything. You keep trying to prove the 30/06 isn't the best gun for gnats, doves, dinosaurs and helicopters but it does work for most other things, just like a whole bunch of other chamberings would, 308, 708, 270, 7RM, 300WM, etc etc etc.
Quote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 10:02:09 AMQuote from: Tom Foolery on February 21, 2019, 08:17:12 AMQuote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 06:21:32 AMQuote from: dirt road ninja on February 21, 2019, 05:43:24 AMWhen a new round comes out they still compare it to the old 06.Let's think this through. The 30-06 is a great 55 gr varmint gun yea? If so when these new tiny varmint calibers came out did they compare it to the "great 06"? When the .223 super short came out did they compare that? That's kinda my point. Apples to apples the 30-06 is a good mid range cartridge. It's a compromise on its ends. Leave it mid range where imo opinion it should be, is there any difference between that n a .270? Almost the same cartridge. Look at ballistics on lots of mid range guns. They're all close and all good rounds including the 30-06. Like I said is it "best" on varmints? Better than a 22-250? Faster than a .220 swift? Less damaging than say a .17? Let's go up, is it better than say a .300 w 180 grain bullet? More authoritive than a .338 or .375? Not apples to apples though and not 30-06 strong points. That's all I'm saying.Why would you change all the bullet weights? A 180 partition, accubond or ballistic tip would cover pretty much everything. I killed a 20lb bobcat with a 180 partition from a 30/06 @ 25yds and the exit was about the size of a quarter. That same bullet would handle moose, bears or anything else. You could say the same thing about a 300WM. Chamberings are more alike than different in killing power . It matters more where you hit them than what you hit them with. I've shot the 300win a lot and it does a good job but I've not seen it do things anything else wouldn't have done. A friend took one elk hunting and lost a good bull due to a shot that was a little far back. All that horsepower didn't make up for poor shooting. Had he had less recoil and more range time maybe he doesn't make a poor shot. Carrying a 10lb 4' long rifle that burns 70grs of powder for my style of hunting makes no sense. All my shots are within 400yds and nothing weighs over 300lbs, we will run into the occasional hog. Even if I went after elk I don't know if I'd take one of my magnums. Phil Shoemaker carried a 30/06 with 200gr of 220gr Partitions as a grizzly guide for years before he stepped up to the 458 win mag. Let's talk extremes, would you do beaver control work w it, take a kid to shoot squirrels? Like I said it's got plenty of options, not knocking the caliber that'd be silly but it's not a do it all w/0 compromise. You make a good point about bullets than you contradict yourself. It doesn't matter only where you hit em. If you use a thin jacketed poly tipped bullet it'll be much more violent expansion no matter how you hit em plus now you're thinking a straight broadside shot through the ribs or the shot is passed w a rifle??The accubond I'll be honest, not noslers best in my testing in my guns. A Sierr@ game king blows em away accuracy wise. They expand perfectly on deer, I'm not sure bout elk but it's what I'd bring. Sierr@ have an awful lot more accuracy awards too. I'll agree the bigger magnums make no sense if you count powder money wise but look at how many fellows here spend $50 bucks for 5 shells to shoot through a turkey at 25 yards. Guys this is no 30-06 bash so don't think it is. The round has more than proven itself. Why though did the bear guide go up to a bigger caliber? Cause he felt it was better. You're point about your style of hunting making no sense is on the money n that's what I said earlier. The round/gun isn't what works or is perfect for you, I or the guy next door. It's whats perfect for the op. Your absolutely right you still gotta shoot straight. A bad shot is a bad shot that's a fact. Another point to add to that and it's against the 300 win mag, lots of guys don't like shooting it and because of that it's absolutely a bad choice there. Every gun will have certain limitations or restrictions of sorts. If you notice you're agreeing with what I said. Weight, recoil, game, head, etc etc all must be considered. Here's another one. What about the overall fitness of the hunter? A healthy, strong young man may not worry about ten pounds, his young 80 pound daughter would right? On the very same hunt for the very same game 2 totally dif guns might side by side and be the "best." One size does not fit all nor is one caliber the best for everything w everybody. If you think so God bless ya, that's you're right too
Quote from: Tom Foolery on February 21, 2019, 08:17:12 AMQuote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 06:21:32 AMQuote from: dirt road ninja on February 21, 2019, 05:43:24 AMWhen a new round comes out they still compare it to the old 06.Let's think this through. The 30-06 is a great 55 gr varmint gun yea? If so when these new tiny varmint calibers came out did they compare it to the "great 06"? When the .223 super short came out did they compare that? That's kinda my point. Apples to apples the 30-06 is a good mid range cartridge. It's a compromise on its ends. Leave it mid range where imo opinion it should be, is there any difference between that n a .270? Almost the same cartridge. Look at ballistics on lots of mid range guns. They're all close and all good rounds including the 30-06. Like I said is it "best" on varmints? Better than a 22-250? Faster than a .220 swift? Less damaging than say a .17? Let's go up, is it better than say a .300 w 180 grain bullet? More authoritive than a .338 or .375? Not apples to apples though and not 30-06 strong points. That's all I'm saying.Why would you change all the bullet weights? A 180 partition, accubond or ballistic tip would cover pretty much everything. I killed a 20lb bobcat with a 180 partition from a 30/06 @ 25yds and the exit was about the size of a quarter. That same bullet would handle moose, bears or anything else. You could say the same thing about a 300WM. Chamberings are more alike than different in killing power . It matters more where you hit them than what you hit them with. I've shot the 300win a lot and it does a good job but I've not seen it do things anything else wouldn't have done. A friend took one elk hunting and lost a good bull due to a shot that was a little far back. All that horsepower didn't make up for poor shooting. Had he had less recoil and more range time maybe he doesn't make a poor shot. Carrying a 10lb 4' long rifle that burns 70grs of powder for my style of hunting makes no sense. All my shots are within 400yds and nothing weighs over 300lbs, we will run into the occasional hog. Even if I went after elk I don't know if I'd take one of my magnums. Phil Shoemaker carried a 30/06 with 200gr of 220gr Partitions as a grizzly guide for years before he stepped up to the 458 win mag.
Quote from: Bowguy on February 21, 2019, 06:21:32 AMQuote from: dirt road ninja on February 21, 2019, 05:43:24 AMWhen a new round comes out they still compare it to the old 06.Let's think this through. The 30-06 is a great 55 gr varmint gun yea? If so when these new tiny varmint calibers came out did they compare it to the "great 06"? When the .223 super short came out did they compare that? That's kinda my point. Apples to apples the 30-06 is a good mid range cartridge. It's a compromise on its ends. Leave it mid range where imo opinion it should be, is there any difference between that n a .270? Almost the same cartridge. Look at ballistics on lots of mid range guns. They're all close and all good rounds including the 30-06. Like I said is it "best" on varmints? Better than a 22-250? Faster than a .220 swift? Less damaging than say a .17? Let's go up, is it better than say a .300 w 180 grain bullet? More authoritive than a .338 or .375? Not apples to apples though and not 30-06 strong points. That's all I'm saying.
Quote from: dirt road ninja on February 21, 2019, 05:43:24 AMWhen a new round comes out they still compare it to the old 06.
Quote from: Sixes on February 21, 2019, 05:42:30 PMI can't help as far as hunting elk goes, but I own a Tikka T3x in 270 short mag and several Browning A bolts, plus a couple of Winchester Model 70s and the Tikka is the most accurate and has the best trigger factory trigger of any rifle that I have shot. Plus, it can be set as low as 2 pounds very easily.Straight out of the box shooting factory ammo, the Tikka shot 3/4" to touch over 1" groups with several different brands, but ended up liking Federal Fusion (one of the cheapest factory ammo out) the best.The action is the smoothest that I have ever felt on a bolt action. My next rifle will be another Tikka.My vote would be the Tikka in 300WSM.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on February 21, 2019, 03:11:03 PMQuote from: Fullfan on February 21, 2019, 03:00:28 PMI have killed my fair share of Bulls, some with the .338 win mag some with the 7 mag and several with a 300WSM. All about shot placement. Elk have a tremendous desire to live, and can take some lead. The gun I carry now and enjoy I is a Kimber Montane in WSM. Hand loaded 180 Barns TTSX shoot sub moa out to 200. Find one you like shoot it often and have fun..Man, I checked out the Kimber Montana. Nice rig. My only hang up was that their accuracy was suspect and a lot of guys complaining about bolt bind if trying to cycle quickly. As for having a will to live, I'll agree. Elk certainly have that. I didn't feel under gunner while carrying my 7-08 with a 150 Nosler Partition until my buddy shot his elk 4x with his 300. First shot broke his neck. They said he kept trying to get up. Said even after the 4th shot he was still another 10 minutes before he expired. Truth be told, after doing the autopsy, I don't think those bullets we're getting to where they needed to be. No fault of the gun and I still think my 7-08 would've been plenty. Having said that, I've shot his rifle and find it to be a pleasant gun to shoot with the brake on it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: ElkTurkMan on February 24, 2019, 07:32:00 PMI stated out elk hunting using my 06. I shot my first bull with it and it served me well. I upgraded to a 300 RUM because I wanted something with more down range energy at longer ranges. My 300 RUM is a model 700 LSS with a break it's a little on the bad. I shoot 180 Grain Barnes TTSX
Quote from: wvmntnhick on February 24, 2019, 07:36:30 PMQuote from: ElkTurkMan on February 24, 2019, 07:32:00 PMI stated out elk hunting using my 06. I shot my first bull with it and it served me well. I upgraded to a 300 RUM because I wanted something with more down range energy at longer ranges. My 300 RUM is a model 700 LSS with a break it's a little on the bad. I shoot 180 Grain Barnes TTSX Right on. Think I've made the decision though. I'm snagging an X-Bolt in 300 WSM. Found a good deal on it and unless I'm throwing bullets heavier then 180 gr, it runs right with the Win Mag with less powder and recoil. With the brake, it should kick less than your typical '06 and it'll become my one rifle for everything. Had considered getting 2 rifles but upon rethinking it all, not gonna do that. Just adding more fodder I'll not use. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: owlhoot on February 24, 2019, 07:50:42 PMQuote from: wvmntnhick on February 24, 2019, 07:36:30 PMQuote from: ElkTurkMan on February 24, 2019, 07:32:00 PMI stated out elk hunting using my 06. I shot my first bull with it and it served me well. I upgraded to a 300 RUM because I wanted something with more down range energy at longer ranges. My 300 RUM is a model 700 LSS with a break it's a little on the bad. I shoot 180 Grain Barnes TTSX Right on. Think I've made the decision though. I'm snagging an X-Bolt in 300 WSM. Found a good deal on it and unless I'm throwing bullets heavier then 180 gr, it runs right with the Win Mag with less powder and recoil. With the brake, it should kick less than your typical '06 and it'll become my one rifle for everything. Had considered getting 2 rifles but upon rethinking it all, not gonna do that. Just adding more fodder I'll not use. Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat kind of brake?
