We talked for 30+ minutes on the phone about calls and when it was over, I told him to make me a call that he felt met his expectations in a turkey call. Short box without grooves I believe is what he wanted to make me. Honestly, it's been so long I can't really remember the details, nor do I think any of it will matter. I do know that I'll have him send me a pot call or two.....why not, right!?!?