Habitat burning

[Txag12]

What is yalls take on burning? No doubt it proves as an effective habitat management practice, but in my experience the hunting seems to peak in burned areas one year to two years depending on precip and vegtiative growth. Rarely have I had much success in fresh burned ground, it just seems to push the birds out which from the best I can tell is due to the lack of suitable nesting habitat. What say you?

[MickT]

Depends on the size, intensity, and time since burn. I've killed my share of black-footed birds. It's not unusual to see birds in a burn within hours.

While it may temporarily consume some nesting cover, burning provides great spring strutting and foraging areas, and excellent brood cover. This is my experience in TN anyways.


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[nativeks]

I burn every year and kill birds. I was on a prescribed fire crew and birds would be in burns quickly. A lot of folks here burn to get turkeys using their property. I'll be burning next week.

[dublelung]

If turkeys are already in the area they'll be back in a burn before the stumps stop smoking. Here in south MS several wmas burn mid to late April and they've nearly wiped out the turkeys due to hens nesting that time of year. Burning is great when done the right time.

[zeke632]

It's been my experience that turkeys will be back in a burn quickly, especially when new green plants start showing up.  The problem I have is a couple of years later when all of the new sprouts are up about waist high.  When they get leafed out it's almost impossible to see through. I think hens will nest on the edges of these thickets, but hunting in there is a challenge.

[dirt road ninja]

I'd hunt in it as soon as it stops smoking. Down here the first spring after the burn is the best.

[smalls]

If turkeys are already in the area they'll be back in a burn before the stumps stop smoking. Here in south MS several wmas burn mid to late April and they've nearly wiped out the turkeys due to hens nesting that time of year. Burning is great when done the right time.

People in Louisiana believe this too, yet there is zero evidence to support it.

I know many turkey hunters in the south have this issue with trusting biologists, but I have yet to see a study that actually found a significant impact on nest success caused by fires, and many of those studies involved radio transmitters on hens.

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[ilbucksndux]

For whatever reason burning is something they have just started doing around here and I tell ya that turkeys are in the burnt areas before the smoke clears

[dublelung]

If turkeys are already in the area they'll be back in a burn before the stumps stop smoking. Here in south MS several wmas burn mid to late April and they've nearly wiped out the turkeys due to hens nesting that time of year. Burning is great when done the right time.

People in Louisiana believe this too, yet there is zero evidence to support it.

I know many turkey hunters in the south have this issue with trusting biologists, but I have yet to see a study that actually found a significant impact on nest success caused by fires, and many of those studies involved radio transmitters on hens.

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Praise the biologist all you want, but burnt eggs don't hatch, young poults can't survive a large fire, and the huge reduction in our turkey numbers don't lie. If they'd burn late Feb into mid March it wouldn't have near the impact it does when burning throughout April and May. Prescribed burning is very beneficial to adult turkeys when done properly and during the right time of the year.

[nativeks]

Burning at different times accomplished different things. Early burns may clear out the dead stuff but doesn't allow you to target things you want to weaken or kill. Wildlands in this country have went without a regular fire regime sometimes it takes successive years to get accomplished what you want. For instance this year I will burn half my place any day now. I'll burn the other half September 1 or so. Also me to accomplish different resource objectives.

[smalls]

If turkeys are already in the area they'll be back in a burn before the stumps stop smoking. Here in south MS several wmas burn mid to late April and they've nearly wiped out the turkeys due to hens nesting that time of year. Burning is great when done the right time.

People in Louisiana believe this too, yet there is zero evidence to support it.

I know many turkey hunters in the south have this issue with trusting biologists, but I have yet to see a study that actually found a significant impact on nest success caused by fires, and many of those studies involved radio transmitters on hens.

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Praise the biologist all you want, but burnt eggs don't hatch, young poults can't survive a large fire, and the huge reduction in our turkey numbers don't lie. If they'd burn late Feb into mid March it wouldn't have near the impact it does when burning throughout April and May. Prescribed burning is very beneficial to adult turkeys when done properly and during the right time of the year.

Fires historically occurred in a lot of fire-dependent habitats in the early growing season.  It's been proven in research, and it's in old writings from early explorers across the region.  Growing season lightning fires were very common.  You don't think turkeys were able to handle that back then?

I'll ask you the same thing I ask EVERYONE in Louisiana:  how many burnt nests have you found?  How many dead birds have you found?  None of them can ever answer either question.  They just go on a rant about biologists and books and blah, blah, blah.  Hell, some of them complain that the Forest Service "destroyed" all the hardwoods in Kisatchie to plant "useless" pine trees.  Can you imagine that?  The FS destroyed a forest to restore something that was always there historically.  That is until humans logged it out anyway.  How dare they!!

Hunters have been blaming the burning in Louisiana the past few years, but they ignore the fact that the last 2 springs have been extremely wet--not good for turkey production.

I'm not necessarily praising biologists here, because they aren't always right.  Some are downright lazy, and aren't at concerned with doing a good job.  But the highest poult per hen ratio in Louisiana since the late 90s just happens to be in the region with the most burning activity, the western longleaf.

Georgia and Alabama burn more acreage than anyone, and guess what?  They have hundreds of thousands of birds.  I believe Alabama has 5 times as many birds as Louisiana, and they burn at least twice the acreage we do.

I'm not saying do all the burning in April, May, and June.  You have to burn according to a management objective.  And managing for wildlife isn't always the primary objective.

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[MickT]

I've burned up 2 nests burning in mid April in TN. This was 1 each in successive burns on the same unit, 2 years apart. I generally stop by the end of March. I see no habitat advantages of burning through April vs February or March. I'd like to already be done but we only had 7 rain free days in February.


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[smalls]

I've burned up 2 nests burning in mid April in TN. This was 1 each in successive burns on the same unit, 2 years apart. I generally stop by the end of March. I see no habitat advantages of burning through April vs February or March. I'd like to already be done but we only had 7 rain free days in February.


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What are your management objectives for the habitat in general, and why do you burn?

How large was the unit that you burned the nests up in?

No doubt some are lost, and if anyone believed I was saying they aren't, let me clarify that now.  It's impossible to say that burns do not impact turkey nests, but to argue that burns are responsible for drastic declines in turkeys is foolish unless dozens of nests are being destroyed in a fire.  I've never heard or read such a story, only ones similar to yours.

But again, on your land, that is your decision.  Nothing wrong with that.  But public land managers are often bound by management plans and objectives that aren't always wildlife-centric.  Historic records and current and on-going research show that the benefits of early season burns far outweigh the negative impacts.  For one, if the primary management species is pine, early growing season burns are the most effective at killing hardwoods.

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[MickT]

I've burned up 2 nests burning in mid April in TN. This was 1 each in successive burns on the same unit, 2 years apart. I generally stop by the end of March. I see no habitat advantages of burning through April vs February or March. I'd like to already be done but we only had 7 rain free days in February.


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What are your management objectives for the habitat in general, and why do you burn?

How large was the unit that you burned the nests up in?

No doubt some are lost, and if anyone believed I was saying they aren't, let me clarify that now.  It's impossible to say that burns do not impact turkey nests, but to argue that burns are responsible for drastic declines in turkeys is foolish unless dozens of nests are being destroyed in a fire.  I've never heard or read such a story, only ones similar to yours.

But again, on your land, that is your decision.  Nothing wrong with that.  But public land managers are often bound by management plans and objectives that aren't always wildlife-centric.  Historic records and current and on-going research show that the benefits of early season burns far outweigh the negative impacts.  For one, if the primary management species is pine, early growing season burns are the most effective at killing hardwoods.

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Both were part of a research project for my MS thesis. We were looking at veg response for turkey nesting and brood cover, and forage for deer. These were 12, 2 acre treatment blocks in 4 different stands.

We found no advantages to waiting until the early growing (nesting) season to burn compared to the literature on dormant season fire for deer, turkeys, or regeneration (promoting or killing) in upland hardwoods. At least with the hardwood species we had, April burns simply top killed them and they resprouted just as well as the areas we burned in February or March.

The real magic happens in August - October though. Late growing season burns are better at setting back hardwoods in my experience- they already have the sap up, and they haven't pulled it back yet. We also had major shifts to legume and forb dominated understories with late growing season burns in subsequent years.


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[nativeks]

Here burning as late as you can get fire to carry (into May depending on the property) sets back th cool season grasses (brome/fescue) while allowing the natives to get their foot in the door.