Where do all the turkeys go?

[Banana]

I have been turkey hunting for only five years.  Last year was my first on public land. I did scout before season and located a few birds.  I'm not much for crowds and we have them in PA, so I don't hunt opening day on public land, but when I went back during the week and weeks after I wasn't able to find or hear one bird.  I know birds are there because I see them after the season even with their poults.  One problem I'm thinking is you can't walk away from the crowd on this land because there are access points to the entire area.  The area has a few high points, some marsh area, mostly woods with a couple fields and gas line in the center.  What strategy would you take to find birds on this property even if there are few? 

[shaman]

You're going to find I have a different answer than most. 

1)  My theory is that most of the birds that might have been gobbling before the Opener are already in someone's freezer.  If memory serves, half of all the birds taken are taken in the first few days of season.
2)  I'm not a big fan of "hunting pressure" as an overall theory.  Mostly because of #1 above.  I've just seen where it just ain't so.
3)  There are only so many days during season where the birds around me are going to be open to calling.  A good number of days, they seem to have gone down a manhole and pull the lid in over themselves.  Going out on one of those off days makes you think the woods are empty.
4)  If you believe #1 above, then the best thing to do is look for birds as far away from where other hunters hunt.  I'm going to give you a rough ballpark estimate of 1/8th of a large public hunting area is normally exploited.  That's a thin band of land surrounding the turnouts and parking lots.  If you go in deep, away from the roads, turkeys remain untouched.

Bottom line: 
a) Go deep to find the birds.
b) Go often-- In KY's Gobbler season, I may see only 3 days where the turkeys are turned on. There's no predicting when that is.
c)  Stay out.  Just because you heard zilch at flydown, doesn't mean the turkeys won't turn on at 1030 or 1430.   

Whether you agree with my reasoning or not. The bottom line will be what most folks will tell you.

[GobbleNut]

Okay, if you can stick with this post 'til the end, I will tell you how to solve your problem...

Personally, turkey hunting to me is about first finding a gobbling turkey.  To do that correctly, you have to be in the woods at the right time,...which is BEFORE daylight in pretty much all places, and for a lot of places, right at DARK in the evening. You also have to learn to use the road system and the terrain of the area to maximize your chances of hearing a gobbler during those times.  Covering ground during peak gobbling periods is the key to finding active gobblers. 

Granted, this method applies in instances where you have a significantly large area to try to find gobbling turkeys.  For small tracts,...that is, places where you can hear from one end of the property to the other,...it does not apply.  In those situations, you get where you have the best chance of hearing a gobble on the property,...and be there at the right time.

If you are hunting a large area, randomly choosing a spot and sitting waiting to hear a gobble is a crapshoot.  True, you may just randomly choose the right spot and hear a gobbler, but you may also choose a location where there is not a gobbling turkey within five miles.  You are wasting your time.

Now, if you really want to maximize your chances of finding a gobbling turkey, you approach it from a more aggressive perspective.  During those peak gobbling periods, you MAKE a gobbler that might not want to gobble tell you where he is.  You force him to gobble by using a locator call to make him involuntarily tell you where he is.

Granted, this is a much debated subject on turkey hunting forums.  Some people condemn others for using locator calls (see other threads on OG),...and it is true that using a locator call in a place where you KNOW there are already other hunters close by is ethically questionable.  However, there are plenty of places where the use of a locator call can spell the difference between success or failure on a hunt,...and quite honestly, there are places where their use is essential to finding a turkey to hunt.

So, back to your dilemma.  If you are hunting a large area that is not just saturated with other hunters, this is how you will find a vocal gobbler to hunt.  Be "out there" at the first hint of daylight and start at a spot where you can hear a long way. Get yourself a really LOUD call of some sort,...crow, owl, coyote howler, CO2 horn,....about anything that will make a really loud, abrupt sound.  Eliminating all extraneous noises (turn off your vehicle, get out, be completely quiet), make one or two very loud and quick "blasts" on your locator call,...and then listen.

Often, if there is a gobbler around,...and even if he does not want to gobble,...he will gobble back at that loud noise. It is an instinctive response,...he can't help himself.  If you do not hear a gobble, move on to another spot as quickly as possible and repeat that procedure.  I have hunted spring gobblers for over fifty years now,...and in quite a few different places for all five of the subspecies,...and I can tell you without reservation that this method is the very best way to find a gobbler to hunt.  It is absolutely effective.

Again, be respectful of other hunters if you know they are around when doing this, but where it is appropriate, do not hesitate to use locator calls.  I have killed a truckload of gobblers in places I have not been familiar with by using this simple method of finding them at the right time of day,...which is right at daylight in the morning, and right at dark in the evening. 

In the right circumstances, I GUARANTEE you will find (and probably kill) more gobblers than you ever will otherwise. 

[mightyjoeyoung]

Where abouts in PA are you at?  Location  can make a huge difference.   A lot of guys just don't understand what hunting PA game lands is like.  We have A LOT of public access hunting land in PA. You usually don't have to drive far to get to at least 3 or 4 blocks of SGLs  no matter where you live.  Gobblenut hit the nail on the head.  Also hunting pressure absolutely CAN affect birds and their behavior. When you have every jack wagon and their brother tromping through the woods hacking on a box call all morning long it can and will affect a gobbler's behavior.   Don't forget the second half of our season either!  Late day hunting can be very rewarding too.  The hens are usually sitting nests and the gobblers are looking for a girlfriend.   Sure they may not be very responsive to calls and may only gobble a little bit if at all.  Remember we're trying to make a gobbler do the exact opposite of what turkeys do in nature by making the tom come to us I stead of the hen going to him as nature intended.   Call sparingly, keep your eyes and eas OPEN and tour movement to an absolute minimum.  And try to pattern the birds. Even with pressure, turkeys are creatures of habit and can still be patterned.  Set yourself up in strutt zones, feed zones and travel routes back to roost.  Good luck. 

[Banana]

Mightyjoeyoung i'm in the SE area of PA.  All my hunting prior to last year was on private land where we knew all the roosting areas and their patterns and were very successful.  But all good things come to an end so I am now trying to learn public land.

Gobblenut I did try last year a few times to locate before and around daylight, but either had no luck or ran into others.  Is this common in turkey hunting to move around till you locate one?  What is your approach if you get no response?  That is more of my concern.  The person who taught me about turkey hunting already had places picked out because he knew where the turkeys liked to be and their patterns.  So I never learned much about locating on different land.

Shaman I also thought the same as you about the birds being taken already, but I do see birds after the season when I'm running my dog.

Thanks all for your help.

[mightyjoeyoung]

Banana, believe me, the birds haven't all been harvested.   While our population has declined in PA, it's nowhere near as bad as some states.  That and like I said, most guys hunt the first couple Saturdays and that's it.  The birds are there I guarantee it, just have to adjust to their pattern after having the camo army chase em for a few days.  Go deeper, earlier and tone it down and you should do fine. I LOVE hunting PA public land for that one reason, the challange.   Birds have had their world messed with and you need to adjust tactics to score.

[GobbleNut]

Gobblenut I did try last year a few times to locate before and around daylight, but either had no luck or ran into others.  Is this common in turkey hunting to move around till you locate one?  What is your approach if you get no response? 

I never quit trying to locate a gobbler with a locator while they are roosted.  If I have not had a gobbler respond to my locator, I will keep moving and repeating the process until I either locate one (which has almost always been the case) or until I think they have all left the roost.  Honestly, the number of times I have not found a gobbler doing that has been so few that I rarely have to contemplate what to do if I don't find one that way.  Granted, I have never hunted Pennsylvania, and if I did and this did not work, it would be the first place I have ever hunted that it did not.

Again, the key is the loudness of the locator call.  From my experience, a really loud call, regardless of the realism, will pull a gobble out of a turkey better than the most realistic call that is not loud enough.  Remember, you are shocking them into gobbling.  The louder and more abrupt the sound, the better.

Another key is covering as much country as you can during "prime time".  In some places, there just are not a lot of gobblers, so you have to maximize the country you cover by being efficient about it.  Plan out your route to hit the places you think there are gobblers, and then hit as many of them as you can during that period of time when they are most likely to respond. 

Having an idea how far you can hear a turkey gobble in the country you are hunting is another factor.  Some places you can hear a gobble a mile or more away, and some places half that or less.  Always assess the terrain features in deciding where to stop and try your locator.  Some places where the woods are thick and the terrain is really "cut up", you have to stop and call much more often than in places where the terrain is open and a gobble will carry a long way.

To me, learning how to locate gobblers by using effective locator call tactics is an art in itself that is just as important in many situations as knowing how to call turkeys. 

[falltoms]

I'm from Pa also.  I hunt alot of public land and yes there are too many easy access points on some of the gamelands. Go back and hunt the last two weeks when the majority of hunters give up

[silvestris]

I am a believer in the manhole theory.  If not valid, they will always give you all the room you want.

[shaman]

When I said the birds are sitting in somebody's freezer.  I didn't mean all the birds, just the ones that were easy pickings on The Opener. 

I've taken a very mature gobbler on a neighboring ridge, and had his top competitor move into that ridge by the next afternoon.  I sat on the porch and watched it.  Remember that the gobbling is both a sexual attractant and also a territorial call. Gobs are letting everyone know they're there and nobody else should be thinking about moving in.    When you kill a dominant gobbler, the whole neighborhood tries to rearrange itself to deal with the void.  In this case, I witnessed the new King of the Ridge make hesitant forays onto the ridge, trying to get the now-dead gobbler  to declare himself.  Being met with nothing but silence, the interloper finally moved all the way in and was roosting in the old Gob's tree by the next evening. 

If you figure that on a grander scale, turkeys have to sort things out after a WMA has been ravaged by the Opening Day Mob.  Remember that thin 1/8'th band I mentioned.  The turkeys now have to figure out a way to deal with that void.

The other thing to consider is the timing.  Not all gobs get hot on The Opener and stay that way.  As a general rule, I used to find that the turkeys on my ridge were most likely to be taken in the latter part of the first week-- say Thursday and Friday of Opening Week.    That's all changed now.  About 10 years ago, I noticed a change in their behavior. We'd had a glut of Jakes after a visit from the Cicadas the previous year.  For whatever reason that cadre, and the succeeding cadres have been more likely to turn on early.    I used to never harvest a gob on the Opener, but I've taken 3 in the last decade. 

Folks tell me I must have been dropped on my head, because I don't believe in hunting pressure as a major factor.  I just don't.  I just don't think gobblers think that much or at least think in those terms.  I've taken a gobbler on Wednesday and seen his girlfriends and his best buddy out in the same field on Thursday and Friday.    I've been sipping my evening cocktail three nights in a row and seen the group of  gobblers walk up to the house and get honestly surprised to see me.

Also remember that what I do believe in is that the same bunch of gobs are only going to be turned on and ready to come to a hunter's call maybe just a few days out of the season.  You can go elsewhere in the county and find hot birds.  You might be able to come back next week and find them hot, or maybe tomorrow, but today those birds have lockjaw, epilepsy and the sieeping sickness, and you ain't gonna get them to come. 

How does this relate to the OP's question.  Again, I say

1) Go deep to find the areas that have not been depleted, and also to get away from the other hunters.
2) Go often-- you never know when the birds turn on. 
3) Stay out-- Birds that had lockjaw at 0800 may be hot at Noon or even late afternoon.
 

[Banana]

The problem with going deep in all my areas I hunt is I can walk from one end to the other in 30 min or less.  How is everyone locating receptive turkeys after they have flown down and become silent?  I don't want to deer hunt for them or is this the best option?

[Happy]

That would be a problem to me. Honestly I would find a bigger area if possible. If not I would sleep in and go hunting around 9-10 am after most fellows have wrapped it up. I can think of a few times I sat in a parking lot and waited till the fellows came out of the woods. Then I went in and had a bird within the hour. It's not my favorite way to hunt as I really enjoy watching a beautiful spring morning come to life but it is effective

[eggshell]

Ok my first advice is: don't listen to Gobblenut he's just an old hack that .....Oh wait I want found myself starting to type "killed a ton of turkeys". Yeah scratch that

Again, the key is the loudness of the locator call.  From my experience, a really loud call, regardless of the realism, will pull a gobble out of a turkey better than the most realistic call that is not loud enough.  Remember, you are shocking them into gobbling.  The louder and more abrupt the sound, the better.

I totally agree. I have been made fun of so much it isn't funny, but I find and kill turkeys. I am loud with my locators, I mean really loud. I have an owl hoot that will ring through the hills. I once was huunting with a guy that you could not tell from a real owl when he hooted. He always made fun of me and my hooting. One morning we could not buy a gobble and I said let me try and he laughed. I hooted and five gobblers answered, now he turns and says, "you hoot". I once had an old farm truck beat to heck. I would drive around and try to locate gobblers, if it was a bad morning I had a heavy board in the bed I would grab and pond the bed top of that truck as hard as I could and you'd be amazed at how many turkeys answered over the years. I also carried a metal trash can lid. Actually I never thought of an air horn....HMMM

[HookedonHooks]

That would be a problem to me. Honestly I would find a bigger area if possible. If not I would sleep in and go hunting around 9-10 am after most fellows have wrapped it up. I can think of a few times I sat in a parking lot and waited till the fellows came out of the woods. Then I went in and had a bird within the hour. It's not my favorite way to hunt as I really enjoy watching a beautiful spring morning come to life but it is effective

On a smaller area, this is 100% your best option to stay away from the pressure. I'm convinced more toms die mid morning than straight off the roost anyways.

[MK M GOBL]

Would have to agree with GobbleNut and Shaman on their posts. I found the locator calls I have might not be the best representation of the Owl, Crow... but they are loud and sharp sounding, I'm not contest calling here...

Are you limiting yourself to one property? Sounds to be one the smaller side... A bit of a disadvantage when talking public and heavily hunted.

For me persistence and patients win the day!

MK M GOBL

It's all in the name