THE NEW TURKEY HUNTERS...

[g8rvet]

Days hunted vs. birds killed doesn't mean squat. And I personally like it when guys run around chasing gobbles, it tends to break up the birds and sometimes makes it easier to call them in. And if you like to run and gun, you most assuredly are probably bumping some birds you didn't even know were there. I hunt the way I like to hunt, and try not to be too concerned how others go about it as long as they are being safe and legal about it. America is a big place. What are traditional, time honored hunting methods in your region, just may be frowned on or even ridiculed in another region. I think we have slowly lost a lot of courtesy that was once a cornerstone of hunter ethics in the last decade or so due to the influence of social media. Hopefully it is a trend that doesn't last.

Well said my brother.

[Tail Feathers]

I've read about they guy VATurkeyStomper was referring to.  I would describe his hunting like quavers did.  He doesn't exactly charge toms full tilt, but he is known for running through the woods to close the distance.  He is decidedly an aggressive hunter, moving a lot and not sitting much at all.  I've heard him described as a world class athlete that uses those skills to turkey hunt.
I probably couldn't keep up with the guy if I hunted with him, but I generally enjoy a slower pace, taking in the woods as I go.
If I hunted property with him, I wouldn't worry too much.  He'll be gone in a day or two.    And he'll most likely be taking a bird or two with him.

[quavers59]

I read some of the replys. While I dont agree with everyone here- to each their own. I do remember - Craig. This young man was no more then 18. He ran full tilt through a swamp I was hunting in . Tried to sprint to the roost tree to get a shot .  He spooked them and I had to go elsewhere. 

[mtns2hunt]

I read some of the replys. While I dont agree with everyone here- to each their own. I do remember - Craig. This young man was no more then 18. He ran full tilt through a swamp I was hunting in . Tried to sprint to the roost tree to get a shot .  He spooked them and I had to go elsewhere.

He should have learned a valuable lesson from that. We all make mistakes at some time in our life. Especally when we were/are young.

[GobbleNut]

While I dont agree with everyone here- to each their own.

That is a good attitude to have with everybody,...within reason.  One of the fundamental ethics of turkey hunters is if a guy gets on a bird first, another hunter should not (consciously) interfere with his hunt.  If I am moving in on a gobbler, whether quickly or slowly, I am always listening/looking for indicators that someone else has beat me to that bird.  If I can make a reasonable assessment that someone is actively hunting that gobbler, I am going to back out and look for another one. 

Having said that, there is a difference to me in a situation where another hunter is set up within a reasonable distance of a gobbler and is in an active calling exchange with that bird, and a situation where a hunter is squatted behind a bunch of decoys, possibly several hundred yards from a bird, and somehow thinks that any gobbler within earshot is his "property" for the day.  That dog don't hunt, boys. 

Depending on where you are hunting,...and specifically on public land,...setting up too far from a gobbling bird, and even more importantly, planting yourself on decoys too far away, is a sure way to get a gobbler shot out from under you by a more aggressive hunter that knows his stuff.  That is nobody's fault but your own. 

I do remember - Craig. This young man was no more then 18. He ran full tilt through a swamp I was hunting in . Tried to sprint to the roost tree to get a shot .  He spooked them and I had to go elsewhere.

Sounds like an inexperienced young hunter,....but there are many questions about this situation:  Did this young man know you were there?  How close were you to the gobbler?  Were you actively "engaged" with the bird, and close enough so that the hunter should reasonably be aware of your presence?  If not, did you make an attempt to let him know you were on the bird?

If you did, and he still "sprinted" past you, then he clearly violated that unwritten ethics rule above.  If he legitimately did not know you were around, and assuming his intentions were not just to try to run up and shoot the bird out of the tree, then his only mistake was in not moving stealthily enough to not bust the bird, regardless of whether he was "sprinting" or "creeping". 

Experienced and knowledgeable hunters adjust their approach tactics to the conditions.  Sometimes those conditions call for speed,...and sometimes they call for stealth,....sometimes they call for a combination of both. 

[RutnNStrutn]

There have always been and will always be idiot hunters on public land, and some on private too. Ain't nothing you can do about them. Just put distance between you and them, go the extra mile and seek out unpressured birds. That's what I do. Be safe y'all.

[merriamsman]

Quavers, i read somewhere that you hunted 16 days this year and only killed 2 turkeys.

If I hunted Stewart State Forest, I'd be more worried about what the hell youre doing that's preventing you from killing birds more regularly and how many YOU actually educate before you find a dumb one.

Was that reply necessary, constructive, or helpful in any way?

The essence of the thread was concern about birds being educated by unorthodox tactics supposedly being employed by a new generation of turkey hunters.

I happen to hunt with and guide for one of the guys he is referencing in the original post.  He lives in Florida and has most likely legally killed more turkeys than any modern hunter. Although he does not "sprint" at turkeys he/we do move at an aggressive pace when we decide which bird is in play for the morning.  It doesn't mean you burn down the woods to the first turkey you hear with reckless abandonment.  It does mean that once you decide on a bird, you move swiftly and get as tight to that turkey as remotely possible. 

This particular individual does not move with a turkey fan in front of him, but he does carry a Montana decoy company silk screen fold up of a gobbler and uses it as a shield when moving on birds that are close by.  He will also use it to reap birds if the situation dictates.

I personally don't believe in reaping or fanning and look forward to the day it's outlawed but many of today's killers will gladly reap a bird and throw it in the back of the truck with the same level of satisfaction I get from calling one up or using topography and habitat features to stalk a field bird with hens that isn't callable on that particular day.

My response to the original poster was simply pointing out that criticizing today's killers for bumping birds seems a bit hypocritical considering the fact that it took him such an extensive number of days to kill 2 turkeys.  There were a hell of a lot of bumped turkeys in those 14 unsuccessful days afield. In contrast, the guys he is reading about rarely spend more than 2 or 3 days at the maximum in one place before they have a dead bird in their hands.  There are a lot of innovative tactics being employed by some incredibly successful hunters around the US.  You may not agree with some of the tactics but I can tell you one thing, the hunter who stays on his home turf hunting  the same birds on the same topography is not the guy you want to be taking advice from.  The guys who travel to different places and continually find success despite foreign terrain and undesirable weather conditions are the ones you want and to be paying attention to if you want to improve your game.

If I hunted 16 days and only killed 2 turkeys.... I'd be paying attention to some of the stuff I was reading and I'd be considering how I could integrate it into my hunting style   to become a more successful hunter. 

Lots of sensitivity in this forum among guys who don't like to hear counter perspective.  The purpose of discussion isn't to hold hands and sing koom-bay-yah.

You sound like you have the typical guide mentality that is ruining hunting. It's all about killing as many birds as fast as you can so you can get the maximum number of clients through your operation. Then berate someone who "only" kills two birds in sixteen days. It's no wonder you guys have such a bad reputation.

[quavers59]

Public Lands can be very tough if someone cuts into the Tom you are hunting. Both my Brother in law Mark and I have had 3 toms each spooked and other hunters from what I understand from gobbler#1 . And he was in his 70s at the time. Anything can and will happen on public lands

[quavers59]

merriansman-- I dont agree with your post and we will leave it at that.  My skills rack up with any and all  members here.

[merriamsman]

merriansman-- I dont agree with your post and we will leave it at that.  My skills rack up with any and all  members here.

Quavers, did you read my post? I'm agreeing with you. There's nothing wrong with "only" killing two birds in sixteen days. Turkey hunting should be about a lot more than kill rate. Don't get me wrong, I like to kill birds, and have killed my share, but the current emphasis on killing as many as you can as fast as you can is bad for hunting. And the commercial guiding industry has played a large role in perpetuating that notion.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

Quavers, i read somewhere that you hunted 16 days this year and only killed 2 turkeys.

If I hunted Stewart State Forest, I'd be more worried about what the hell youre doing that's preventing you from killing birds more regularly and how many YOU actually educate before you find a dumb one.

Was that reply necessary, constructive, or helpful in any way?

The essence of the thread was concern about birds being educated by unorthodox tactics supposedly being employed by a new generation of turkey hunters.

I happen to hunt with and guide for one of the guys he is referencing in the original post.  He lives in Florida and has most likely legally killed more turkeys than any modern hunter. Although he does not "sprint" at turkeys he/we do move at an aggressive pace when we decide which bird is in play for the morning.  It doesn't mean you burn down the woods to the first turkey you hear with reckless abandonment.  It does mean that once you decide on a bird, you move swiftly and get as tight to that turkey as remotely possible. 

This particular individual does not move with a turkey fan in front of him, but he does carry a Montana decoy company silk screen fold up of a gobbler and uses it as a shield when moving on birds that are close by.  He will also use it to reap birds if the situation dictates.

I personally don't believe in reaping or fanning and look forward to the day it's outlawed but many of today's killers will gladly reap a bird and throw it in the back of the truck with the same level of satisfaction I get from calling one up or using topography and habitat features to stalk a field bird with hens that isn't callable on that particular day.

My response to the original poster was simply pointing out that criticizing today's killers for bumping birds seems a bit hypocritical considering the fact that it took him such an extensive number of days to kill 2 turkeys.  There were a hell of a lot of bumped turkeys in those 14 unsuccessful days afield. In contrast, the guys he is reading about rarely spend more than 2 or 3 days at the maximum in one place before they have a dead bird in their hands.  There are a lot of innovative tactics being employed by some incredibly successful hunters around the US.  You may not agree with some of the tactics but I can tell you one thing, the hunter who stays on his home turf hunting  the same birds on the same topography is not the guy you want to be taking advice from.  The guys who travel to different places and continually find success despite foreign terrain and undesirable weather conditions are the ones you want and to be paying attention to if you want to improve your game.

If I hunted 16 days and only killed 2 turkeys.... I'd be paying attention to some of the stuff I was reading and I'd be considering how I could integrate it into my hunting style   to become a more successful hunter. 

Lots of sensitivity in this forum among guys who don't like to hear counter perspective.  The purpose of discussion isn't to hold hands and sing koom-bay-yah.

You sound like you have the typical guide mentality that is ruining hunting. It's all about killing as many birds as fast as you can so you can get the maximum number of clients through your operation. Then berate someone who "only" kills two birds in sixteen days. It's no wonder you guys have such a bad reputation.

Whether I'm guiding for charity events, for friends or commercially, I hunt with the same philosophy I have when I'm personally hunting for myself:

We are here to kill turkeys.

Of course, there are a lot of ways to kill turkeys and my personal turkey religion is not something I impose on clients.  I won't reap, fan and I won't kill a bird that happens coincidentally to cross my path when I'm hunting.  I find no skill or satisfaction in any kill derived in such a manner.  That being said, I still focus very heavily on results and seek to refine my ability to achieve them each year.  I practice mouth calls ALL YEAR, I practice running pot calls 6 mos of the year, I study maps all year, I start planning my next season immediately after the current one finishes, I conduct research on new areas I'm planning on hunting all year and I'll start experimenting with some new TSS loads for my 12 gas next week. Maybe that's something you can't understand but none of that is done to improve the odds of failure.  Fu$& failure.

Surprisingly, it's often clients who have significant sums of money on the line and only 3 days to kill who will sell their souls to punch a tag.  Too many times I've had clients request to shoot a bird from the truck or want to reap a bird on the first hour of a 3 day hunt.  While I ensure that the law is followed, I'm not going to tell a client not to reap a bird.

You seem to have a grievance with those who focus on success.  I can't understand why anyone would fault someone else for desiring to improve at their chosen craft.  News flash for you my friend, hunting is an industry and businesses who don't produce don't survive. No company being traded on the DOW or Nasdaq ever achieved success striving for mediocrity and no hunting operation with low success rates will survive.  There are too many guys with too much knowledge, experience and competitive spirit for hunting to ever go back to what it once was.

Lastly, I didn't berate anyone.  I simply criticized someone who was criticizing something completely foreign to them and clarified that their interpretation of what they were reading should not be as literal as it was.

And I'll also tell you this, if you've never sprinted to a turkey, you've never challenged yourself to a goal within our past-time that compelled you to do so.  Ive sprinted in seasons past. I sprinted this spring to seize 2 narrow windows of opportunity and converted in both scenarios.  I will certainly sprint again.  Those aggressive moves were not made with any discourtesy or disregard to other hunters and I despise anyone who would ever hunt over top of someone else. 

To each their own.

[Greg Massey]

Quavers, i read somewhere that you hunted 16 days this year and only killed 2 turkeys.

If I hunted Stewart State Forest, I'd be more worried about what the hell youre doing that's preventing you from killing birds more regularly and how many YOU actually educate before you find a dumb one.

Was that reply necessary, constructive, or helpful in any way?

The essence of the thread was concern about birds being educated by unorthodox tactics supposedly being employed by a new generation of turkey hunters.

I happen to hunt with and guide for one of the guys he is referencing in the original post.  He lives in Florida and has most likely legally killed more turkeys than any modern hunter. Although he does not "sprint" at turkeys he/we do move at an aggressive pace when we decide which bird is in play for the morning.  It doesn't mean you burn down the woods to the first turkey you hear with reckless abandonment.  It does mean that once you decide on a bird, you move swiftly and get as tight to that turkey as remotely possible. 

This particular individual does not move with a turkey fan in front of him, but he does carry a Montana decoy company silk screen fold up of a gobbler and uses it as a shield when moving on birds that are close by.  He will also use it to reap birds if the situation dictates.

I personally don't believe in reaping or fanning and look forward to the day it's outlawed but many of today's killers will gladly reap a bird and throw it in the back of the truck with the same level of satisfaction I get from calling one up or using topography and habitat features to stalk a field bird with hens that isn't callable on that particular day.

My response to the original poster was simply pointing out that criticizing today's killers for bumping birds seems a bit hypocritical considering the fact that it took him such an extensive number of days to kill 2 turkeys.  There were a hell of a lot of bumped turkeys in those 14 unsuccessful days afield. In contrast, the guys he is reading about rarely spend more than 2 or 3 days at the maximum in one place before they have a dead bird in their hands.  There are a lot of innovative tactics being employed by some incredibly successful hunters around the US.  You may not agree with some of the tactics but I can tell you one thing, the hunter who stays on his home turf hunting  the same birds on the same topography is not the guy you want to be taking advice from.  The guys who travel to different places and continually find success despite foreign terrain and undesirable weather conditions are the ones you want and to be paying attention to if you want to improve your game.

If I hunted 16 days and only killed 2 turkeys.... I'd be paying attention to some of the stuff I was reading and I'd be considering how I could integrate it into my hunting style   to become a more successful hunter. 

Lots of sensitivity in this forum among guys who don't like to hear counter perspective.  The purpose of discussion isn't to hold hands and sing koom-bay-yah.

You sound like you have the typical guide mentality that is ruining hunting. It's all about killing as many birds as fast as you can so you can get the maximum number of clients through your operation. Then berate someone who "only" kills two birds in sixteen days. It's no wonder you guys have such a bad reputation.

Whether I'm guiding for charity events, for friends or commercially, I hunt with the same philosophy I have when I'm personally hunting for myself:

We are here to kill turkeys.

Of course, there are a lot of ways to kill turkeys and my personal turkey religion is not something I impose on clients.  I won't reap, fan and I won't kill a bird that happens coincidentally to cross my path when I'm hunting.  I find no skill or satisfaction in any kill derived in such a manner.  That being said, I still focus very heavily on results and seek to refine my ability to achieve them each year.  I practice mouth calls ALL YEAR, I practice running pot calls 6 mos of the year, I study maps all year, I start planning my next season immediately after the current one finishes, I conduct research on new areas I'm planning on hunting all year and I'll start experimenting with some new TSS loads for my 12 gas next week. Maybe that's something you can't understand but none of that is done to improve the odds of failure.  Fu$& failure.

Surprisingly, it's often clients who have significant sums of money on the line and only 3 days to kill who will sell their souls to punch a tag.  Too many times I've had clients request to shoot a bird from the truck or want to reap a bird on the first hour of a 3 day hunt.  While I ensure that the law is followed, I'm not going to tell a client not to reap a bird.

You seem to have a grievance with those who focus on success.  I can't understand why anyone would fault someone else for desiring to improve at their chosen craft.  News flash for you my friend, hunting is an industry and businesses who don't produce don't survive. No company being traded on the DOW or Nasdaq ever achieved success striving for mediocrity and no hunting operation with low success rates will survive.  There are too many guys with too much knowledge, experience and competitive spirit for hunting to ever go back to what it once was.

Lastly, I didn't berate anyone.  I simply criticized someone who was criticizing something completely foreign to them and clarified that their interpretation of what they were reading should not be as literal as it was.

And I'll also tell you this, if you've never sprinted to a turkey, you've never challenged yourself to a goal within our past-time that compelled you to do so.  Ive sprinted in seasons past. I sprinted this spring to seize 2 narrow windows of opportunity and converted in both scenarios.  I will certainly sprint again.  Those aggressive moves were not made with any discourtesy or disregard to other hunters and I despise anyone who would ever hunt over top of someone else. 

To each their own.

Good post in describing yourself and how you feel about turkey hunting..  I just wish i could live long enough to see what you think at age 70....But still again a good post...

[merriamsman]

Quavers, i read somewhere that you hunted 16 days this year and only killed 2 turkeys.

If I hunted Stewart State Forest, I'd be more worried about what the hell youre doing that's preventing you from killing birds more regularly and how many YOU actually educate before you find a dumb one.

Was that reply necessary, constructive, or helpful in any way?

The essence of the thread was concern about birds being educated by unorthodox tactics supposedly being employed by a new generation of turkey hunters.

I happen to hunt with and guide for one of the guys he is referencing in the original post.  He lives in Florida and has most likely legally killed more turkeys than any modern hunter. Although he does not "sprint" at turkeys he/we do move at an aggressive pace when we decide which bird is in play for the morning.  It doesn't mean you burn down the woods to the first turkey you hear with reckless abandonment.  It does mean that once you decide on a bird, you move swiftly and get as tight to that turkey as remotely possible. 

This particular individual does not move with a turkey fan in front of him, but he does carry a Montana decoy company silk screen fold up of a gobbler and uses it as a shield when moving on birds that are close by.  He will also use it to reap birds if the situation dictates.

I personally don't believe in reaping or fanning and look forward to the day it's outlawed but many of today's killers will gladly reap a bird and throw it in the back of the truck with the same level of satisfaction I get from calling one up or using topography and habitat features to stalk a field bird with hens that isn't callable on that particular day.

My response to the original poster was simply pointing out that criticizing today's killers for bumping birds seems a bit hypocritical considering the fact that it took him such an extensive number of days to kill 2 turkeys.  There were a hell of a lot of bumped turkeys in those 14 unsuccessful days afield. In contrast, the guys he is reading about rarely spend more than 2 or 3 days at the maximum in one place before they have a dead bird in their hands.  There are a lot of innovative tactics being employed by some incredibly successful hunters around the US.  You may not agree with some of the tactics but I can tell you one thing, the hunter who stays on his home turf hunting  the same birds on the same topography is not the guy you want to be taking advice from.  The guys who travel to different places and continually find success despite foreign terrain and undesirable weather conditions are the ones you want and to be paying attention to if you want to improve your game.

If I hunted 16 days and only killed 2 turkeys.... I'd be paying attention to some of the stuff I was reading and I'd be considering how I could integrate it into my hunting style   to become a more successful hunter. 

Lots of sensitivity in this forum among guys who don't like to hear counter perspective.  The purpose of discussion isn't to hold hands and sing koom-bay-yah.

You sound like you have the typical guide mentality that is ruining hunting. It's all about killing as many birds as fast as you can so you can get the maximum number of clients through your operation. Then berate someone who "only" kills two birds in sixteen days. It's no wonder you guys have such a bad reputation.

Whether I'm guiding for charity events, for friends or commercially, I hunt with the same philosophy I have when I'm personally hunting for myself:

We are here to kill turkeys.

Of course, there are a lot of ways to kill turkeys and my personal turkey religion is not something I impose on clients.  I won't reap, fan and I won't kill a bird that happens coincidentally to cross my path when I'm hunting.  I find no skill or satisfaction in any kill derived in such a manner.  That being said, I still focus very heavily on results and seek to refine my ability to achieve them each year.  I practice mouth calls ALL YEAR, I practice running pot calls 6 mos of the year, I study maps all year, I start planning my next season immediately after the current one finishes, I conduct research on new areas I'm planning on hunting all year and I'll start experimenting with some new TSS loads for my 12 gas next week. Maybe that's something you can't understand but none of that is done to improve the odds of failure.  Fu$& failure.

Surprisingly, it's often clients who have significant sums of money on the line and only 3 days to kill who will sell their souls to punch a tag.  Too many times I've had clients request to shoot a bird from the truck or want to reap a bird on the first hour of a 3 day hunt.  While I ensure that the law is followed, I'm not going to tell a client not to reap a bird.

You seem to have a grievance with those who focus on success.  I can't understand why anyone would fault someone else for desiring to improve at their chosen craft.  News flash for you my friend, hunting is an industry and businesses who don't produce don't survive. No company being traded on the DOW or Nasdaq ever achieved success striving for mediocrity and no hunting operation with low success rates will survive.  There are too many guys with too much knowledge, experience and competitive spirit for hunting to ever go back to what it once was.

Lastly, I didn't berate anyone.  I simply criticized someone who was criticizing something completely foreign to them and clarified that their interpretation of what they were reading should not be as literal as it was.

And I'll also tell you this, if you've never sprinted to a turkey, you've never challenged yourself to a goal within our past-time that compelled you to do so.  Ive sprinted in seasons past. I sprinted this spring to seize 2 narrow windows of opportunity and converted in both scenarios.  I will certainly sprint again.  Those aggressive moves were not made with any discourtesy or disregard to other hunters and I despise anyone who would ever hunt over top of someone else. 

To each their own.

I don't care how someone hunts, as long as it is legal. I took umbrage at your comment about him only killing two birds in sixteen days, like that was some kind of failure that rendered his comment of no value. I think that type of attitude is bad for hunting in general, and seems to be fostered by the commercialization of the sport.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

Took me 6 full weeks of season to kill 2 longbeards on my local National Forest ground. They were both called to the gun and killed within 30 steps. I'd put myself against any one of you "well traveled", part time guide, professional athlete hunters on any ground, in any state. No shame Quavers59.

The only person you need to prove that to is yourself. 

Put your money where your mouth is, pick 3 states anywhere in the country, do some research and locate public land based on that research, give yourself 1 travel day to get to your first state and one travel day to get back from your last with the goal of killing 1 gobbler in each of those 3 states.

Despite your snarky response, I wish you safe travels and success overcoming the many challenges you are certain to encounter. Like most sh!t talkers, you most likely have a dozen excuses as to why you won't or why you can't but I'll guarantee you one thing... if you do it l, you'll find yourself sprinting at some point ;-)

[Hooksfan]

Took me 6 full weeks of season to kill 2 longbeards on my local National Forest ground. They were both called to the gun and killed within 30 steps. I'd put myself against any one of you "well traveled", part time guide, professional athlete hunters on any ground, in any state. No shame Quavers59.

The only person you need to prove that to is yourself. 

Put your money where your mouth is, pick 3 states anywhere in the country, do some research and locate public land based on that research, give yourself 1 travel day to get to your first state and one travel day to get back from your last with the goal of killing 1 gobbler in each of those 3 states.

Despite your snarky response, I wish you safe travels and success overcoming the many challenges you are certain to encounter. Like most sh!t talkers, you most likely have a dozen excuses as to why you won't or why you can't but I'll guarantee you one thing... if you do it l, you'll find yourself sprinting at some point ;-)

I'm sitting on pins and needles.