Too many choices

[Ozarks Hillbilly]

[quote author=g8rvet link=topic=74419.msg724553#msg724553 date=1494120075

Penetration and energy for shotguns:
I had a link to a table, but lost it. 
Roughly,
TSS   -5 sizes
Heavyweight -3 sizes
Hevi -2 sizes
Lead

So, #4 lead = #6 Hevi = #7 Heavyweight = # 9 TSS  Not exact, but if you look at the tables, it is pretty close.
[/quote]

Lead = Dead
Hevi = Deader
Heavywieght = Deader'er
TSS = Deadest

[TrackeySauresRex]

It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.

You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.

What is it exactly that they don't do again?

Wow! Long beards have been out for 5 years already? Man time flies!

[mtns2hunt]

It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.

You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.

What is it exactly that they don't do again?

Too much over thinking

[stinkpickle]

It sucks to have to burn the hole in your pocket but what shoots in yours will shoot different in mine so you'll have to buy different loads and see which your gun likes. It's a good time because very soon everyone will have all their turkey loads on clearance. My gun likes the mag blends and Hevi 13#6. Don't get me wrong the longbeards are cheap and shoot good but shoot them through a sheet of tin vs Hevi and see what you think about them then. They don't penetrate.

You people are funny.
I flat knocked a gobbler out cold at 37 steps yesterday morning with good old fashioned lead. Longbeard #5s to be exact. Knocked him straight backwards and he laid there with his toes curled up in the air.
As a matter of fact, I shot my limit of Gobblers every year for the past 5 years with copper plated lead longbeards.

What is it exactly that they don't do again?

Too much over thinking

Exactly.  If patterned correctly, one shot type should be able to kill 99.99% of the birds that any other type can.

[Number17]

Whatever shell launched them at 1200fps I suppose is irrelevant because copper plated lead is still copper plated lead no matter how it's packaged.
To say that they don't penetrate it patently false. They have been knocking birds dead for decades.

What is this range where Hevi-12 will penetrate and Lead-11 will not? I've got a few Hevi shells left from a few years ago that I refuse to hunt with because of their lack of consistency and quality control. (remember putting wood glue on the crimps so the buffer didn't leak all over the place?)
I'd like to test this for myself.

[Poleaxe]

It ain't rocket science that when you shoot at 3 birds at 30 or less and feathers fly everywhere but the bird flys off then you ain't gonna talk me into shooting the same shells again. You get what you pay for. Maybe there's a reason the LB's are some of the cheapest sold. I wouldn't shoot a shell I knew would penetrate either. Keep up the good work tho.

[mspaci]

If you hit em where you should have at 30 yards they would be dead, shell got nothin to do w/ it. Mike

[guesswho]

[quote author=g8rvet link=topic=74419.msg724553#msg724553 date=1494120075

Penetration and energy for shotguns:
I had a link to a table, but lost it. 
Roughly,
TSS   -5 sizes
Heavyweight -3 sizes
Hevi -2 sizes
Lead

So, #4 lead = #6 Hevi = #7 Heavyweight = # 9 TSS  Not exact, but if you look at the tables, it is pretty close.

Lead = Dead
Hevi = Deader
Heavywieght = Deader'er
TSS = Deadest

[/quote]
I'm holding out until they come out with a shell that kills them deadester.   I want no survivors.

[Ihuntoldschool]

Yea. It ain't rocket science that when you shot at 3 at 30 yards or less and all the birds flew off you missed the vitals all three times.  Can't blame lead shot for your failure to place your shot in the vitals.

[NYbassman]

It ain't rocket science that when you shoot at 3 birds at 30 or less and feathers fly everywhere but the bird flys off then you ain't gonna talk me into shooting the same shells again.

Guess this makes me question why were you shooting them in their feathered areas?

[g8rvet]

Whatever shell launched them at 1200fps I suppose is irrelevant because copper plated lead is still copper plated lead no matter how it's packaged.
To say that they don't penetrate it patently false. They have been knocking birds dead for decades.

What is this range where Hevi-12 will penetrate and Lead-11 will not? I've got a few Hevi shells left from a few years ago that I refuse to hunt with because of their lack of consistency and quality control. (remember putting wood glue on the crimps so the buffer didn't leak all over the place?)
I'd like to test this for myself.

Good question, but I think you are really missing the point for ethical turkey hunters.  And by ethical, I mean hunters that restrict their shots to 40 yards.  When I step off 40 yards, that is really 10 yards farther than 90% of the birds we kill.

When most folks want the HTL, they want it for the better patterns, not the increased kill range.  What HTL does, if you look at my quote, is let you put more pellets in the 10" circle (and therefore the turkeys head and neck) with effectiveness because you can shoot smaller shot sizes.  At 25 yards, there is no difference in all the options.  The ethical hunter wants the best available patterns for their gun.  If there is any chance someone will be shooting between 25 and 40 yards, then they should make every effort to kill the bird humanely and effectively.  If lead does that in your gun, no reason to waste money.  If it does not, then shooting HTL will often be the answer.  It also gives you a more forgiving pattern at 10 yards, which we all know is quite regular. I have let 2 different birds get a little further away, because I had more confidence at 15 yards than I did at 6 with my gun. 

[tha bugman]

Really all depends on the gun.  Here are my two cents worth...a straight load of Hevi 13 #7's is always a good bet.  Now that Longbeard is here I would probably start out with a box of 6's and see what you think


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[Poleaxe]

Just remember when you get to buy some you get what you pay for. I don't care if I make a bad shot on one or a head shot I want to know what I'm shooting is gonna kill it and LB wernt doing the job for me. That's great if Joe blow killed one with them at 50yrds. I didn't see that so why keep shooting something your not happy with the performance? Nah thanks. I'm gonna spend a little more money on something better I have confidence in.

[Roost 1]

Just remember when you get to buy some you get what you pay for. I don't care if I make a bad shot on one or a head shot I want to know what I'm shooting is gonna kill it and LB wernt doing the job for me. That's great if Joe blow killed one with them at 50yrds. I didn't see that so why keep shooting something your not happy with the performance? Nah thanks. I'm gonna spend a little more money on something better I have confidence in.

It wasn't the shells fault I can assure you of that......

[Ihuntoldschool]

A bad shot is a bad shot no matter what shell you shoot.   No shot material that you use is a substitute for poor shot placement.  Anyone can make a bad shot or 3 from time to time but placing the blame on the shell when it was really the shooter's fault is ridiculous.  Let's not mislead new hunters into believing lead is somehow inadequate and that TSS/ HTL or whatever else makes up for poor shooting.