Fanning in VA

[Happy]

I disagree with fanning on several levels and safety is one of them. I rank it right up there with putting antlers on your head in deer season. That being said the man behind the trigger still bears ultimate responsibility in my mind. It's tragic and just goes to show the reckless abondon that some show in order to be successful. It some ways I also think fanning is also showing a desperate attempt at success. That's just my opinion.

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[Blong]

No matter what actually happened it is still the fellow behind the guns fault. Gun safety goes a long way. Is crawling behind a fan a good Idea? In my opinion no. But I don't condone gobbling either. People get shot just by moving their hands while calling. I hate to hear of anyone getting shot. There is no justification for not knowing your target.

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Exactly!  While I would not feel safe doing it, and have never tried it (PA law is hunting by calling only) it is still insanely stupid to take a shot without knowing your target. I was taught to positively identity not one but several parts of an animal before even thinking of shooting. A few years ago an acquaintance killed a hen in the spring season. He said he heard a bird gobble and then saw something that "looked like a turkey" in the brush so he shot it. I told him he's lucky it wasn't another hunter that he shot. He didn't think that he did anything wrong!  In the end, there is no excuse for not identifying your target. Not just the fan. The whole dang turkey!

Have you ever shot one in the mountains when he peeps his head over? I have many times and will again I hope.

Blong, With people like you in the woods, this is why people get shot.  You have broken 2 cardinal rules of hunting.  First you didn't verify your target.  You said HE sticks his head up over a hill.  You don't know if it is a he or she or someone with a fan because you are only seeing the head.  Two, you can not be sure that this bird has a visible beard (and most states require only killing birds with visible beards).  You hear gobbling and you get caught up in the excitement of the hunt and shoot at a head.  NOPE.  My 2 cents.  As far as fanning, I wouldn't do it but I don't think it should be regulated.  We hunters need to verify our targets, make sure we follow the rules already in place and practice all the safety rules that apply to hunting.  NO hunter should be shot at the expense of, "I thought it was a Turkey."  Get him out in the WIDE open and make sure or let him WALK!

First off I said head not fan, 2nd most states allow jakes, 3rd I guarantee that I can distinguish a male head from a hens head in the spring.  Here where I hunt in ms it is not hilly enough for the just head scenario and jakes aren't legal but I guarantee that if a no beard with full fan breaks the 40 yd mark, he is getting fired on. I don't appreciate being called the reason people are shot either. I like to think that I am one of the safer guys in the woods. My gun is not loaded until I sit down on a turkey. I have been lucky enough to grow up on turkeys and have been watching their actions for 35 years, not just spring. .i am fascinated with them to say the least. I'm not saying that I can't mistake a fake turkey for a real one with the detail being put on the Dekes these days, but I hope I could. As far as real fans being used in tall grass or hills, the fanner is asking for trouble. If one can't distinguish a gobbler head from hen head, he should probably stick to golf or fishing.

Side note: which states require visible beard? The ones I hunt read 'male or visible beard' except ms which is adult gobbler.

[GobbleNut]

Any hunter using reaping as a technique should be smart enough to understand the risks.  Any hunter shooting a turkey ought to be smart enough to positively identify his target as a real bird.

Stupid can hurt.

Summarized nicely....   ...And being real stupid can end up getting you killed!  Hunt smart,...on both ends of the gun,...and with whatever techniques you choose to use.

[VaBoy]

I think some are missing the big point. Here we are , a bunch of hopefully educated and experienced turkey hunters , and we can't agree on what is safe or not with all sorts of scenario's that should make all of us pause and think about what we would do. I mean really in the heat of the moment with the adrenaline pumping do . Yes it is the person who pulls the trigger ultimate responsibility to KNOW what he is shooting at , however , the brain , as mentioned above , can play powerful tricks on us in the heat of the moment. If you think you are immune , I pray that you don't someday have a rude awakening. It's called closure and the brain confirms what you think you are looking at. I have had contact with numerous wardens over the years who have worked accident scenes and most will tell you that the shooter KNEW what he was shooting at , only it wasn't. My turkey hunting "mentor" had it happen to him once only he didn't shoot because the "turkey" he had heard gobbling and coming in and he was now seeing was too far. Turned out to be a friend of his he didn't know was hunting checking his watch because he had limited time but my buddy "knew" it was the turkeys head he was seeing coming in. Scared the be-jesus out of him after his friend eased up from the tree. The whole point of this matter is it can and does happen and why would we ever allow something that INCREASES the risk of an accidental shooting ? I know some will shout don't try and tell me how I can and can't hunt but for the love of the sport and the safety of all involved , please use some common sense. It's a big ole mean world out there and sometimes you have to put your big boy pants on and sacrifice for the betterment of all involved. I will get off of my soapbox now , feel free to start my crucifixion 

[Farmboy27]

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan? 

[beakbuster10]

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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[Cut N Run]

I was under the impression that the regulations in North Carolina are where bearded birds (gobbler or hen) are the only ones legal to take.  But looking on page 57 of the N.C. regulations digest http://www.ncwildlife.org/Hunting/Seasons-Limits#5555120-big-game it states;
Statewide Spring Season (male or bearded turkey only) April 8 - May 6, 2017

That kind of makes it sound like gobblers without beards are now legal.  I'll call the Wildlife Department tomorrow and get some clarification.  They usually post more definite regulations.

I won't be doing any reaping because I already know how many trespassers I've caught hunting posted land that they weren't supposed to be on.  I also find it hard to imagine how any decoy can move exactly like a gobbler.  Maybe I just let them get in too close, but it seems like you'd have to disengage your brain to mistakenly misidentify your target inside of normal hunting ranges.

Jim

[Farmboy27]

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts? 

[beakbuster10]

Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping.  The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other.  I had not heard anything about it before this.

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?

Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.




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[Farmboy27]

Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping.  The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other.  I had not heard anything about it before this.

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?

Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.




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If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.

[beakbuster10]

Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping.  The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other.  I had not heard anything about it before this.

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?

Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.




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If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.

I can't be fooled by what decoys were intended to do, be staked in one spot and look like decoy. I can, along with everyone else, be fooled by a decoy that's slipping around quietly through the woods or tall grass of hilly terrain. I may only be fooled for a split second or fooled for minutes. Eventually, whether it's milliseconds or minutes everyone will finally realize it's a decoy and a person. The question becomes is in the time it took to realize it wasn't actually a legal bird, did the hunter gather enough info, in their mind, that it was a legal bird to shoot?

I've never taken a shot at a bird I didn't 100% know was a legal bird that I believe I could ethically kill just like the overwhelming majority of hunters. But it only takes one lapse of judgement or even misinformation to ruin an otherwise perfect career of making the right decision. Why should it be legal to make that lapse of judgment or misinformation more likely?

Think you can can't be fooled? That's exactly why it happens. Just like not wearing and properly using a harness while treestand hunting. Accidents happen because people don't take every precaution to ensure safety. You know sort of like crawling around behind a realistic copy of what everyone is out to kill. The liability will always fall on the shooter, but why make it easier for someone to have a lapse of judgement leading to horrible accident that ruins multiple lives?

If wearing a seatbelt is a law not crawling around behind what people are trying to kill aught to be a law too.


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[DirtNap647]

It's on trumps agenda to legalize fanning so all will be good

[Blong]

I'm sure the ones involved in the accidents also thought it couldn't happen to them. For instance, gobbler sounding off in small inverted bowl shaped field. Hunter A starts closing from the north while B from the south.  A spots the strutting gobbler then crouches back down to close 40 or 50 more yards, B is doin the same but has bumped the gobbler which has left the field unnoticed while hunters are staying low and easing ever so slowly to field. B arrives first and can't find the gobbler so he belly crawls with his Dsd strutter and real fan attached almost to crest. Hunter A is now on his knees glassing but can't see over the hump. He decides to belly crawl thru the knee high grass and peak over the hill, eases up and sees the tips of a real fan so goes down immediately to close a few more yards to make sure his triple full choke hevi shot will make a clean kill. It can happen and will with today's practices.

[mtns2hunt]

I hunt in Virginia and have found it very safe overall. Fanning is fun to watch on YouTube but never dreamed of using it in VA. As someone stated might as well put antlers on your head during deer season - plain dumb. However there is another factor to consider. My neighbors use rifles to kill their Spring Gobbler. Which is legal in VA, I wish it were not.

At two hundred yards it is easier to mistake a turkey decoy for a real turkey considering the lifelike detail and possible movement from wind or pull string. In fact last season I killed a nice Turkey and when spreading and salting the tail was surprised to see a bullet hole in the fan. It appeared to be a 30 cal. That will kill you for sure. 

[owlhoot]

Just FYI, I was looking at the VDGIF Board Agenda for tomorrow and the Board will act on a staff recommendation banning fanning/reaping.  The rationale section indicates that there has been one fatality in VA that resulted from fanning, apparently two guys were hunting on private land and one shot the other.  I had not heard anything about it before this.

PA requires a visible beard. The fullest fan and wattlest head in the world are mean nothing here if there ain't a visible beard. I really can't believe that anyone is defending the potential shooter in a fanning accident. Not long ago I was nearly crucified by some people for saying that I have body shot turkeys at close range. Now it's ok to shoot for the fan?

Did you even read the thread. First off, we're talking about VA not PA. Second many examples have been given where a beard, head, and fan can all be seen and the hunter behind the bird not. Fanning/reaping is what the discussion is  about. If anyone just shoots a fan they never deserves a gun in the first place. But have you ever seen a DSD strutter?

I bet I could fool you no problem with a DSD stutter if the grass was around 12" tall or with a slight hill, or some thicker underbrush of the later spring.


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Yes I read the post. I also read the post asking where a visible beard was required, hence my response. And this thread is about fanning, not dsd decoys. Did you read all the posts?

Original post. See the second sentence, last word "reaping." Reaping is crawling behind a decoy to kill a turkey. DSD makes the best commercially available decoys. You said there was no way to be fooled. Given the right conditions, anyone on this forum could be fooled by a quality strutter decoy.




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If you can be fooled by a decoy then please don't come to PA. If that's the case then given the right conditions any hunting "accident" is ok. Turkeys move in a way no hunter can mimic. I'm not saying that I feel fanning or reaping is safe. I'm saying that there is no excuse whatsoever for not identifying your target. I have very limited time to hunt. Does that mean I pull the trigger on a fan? Nope. Does that mean I don't take the few seconds needed to confirm that it truely is a real turkey? Nope. Hunter excitement causes a lot of hunting accidents. If you can truely be fooled into shooting an object that isn't a real turkey, then you have to take a long hard look into how you can better prepare yourself for the excitement that can come with this deal.

Those are all good points, are the guys who may shoot at a fan or decoy really worried about seeing a beard ? Doubt it.  The guys who shot someone thought they saw a tom turkey or they would not have pulled the trigger. New decoys and moving fans are all some need to push them into a exited state .Some have been experienced hunters involved . Many accidents have been shooting at a sound of a turkey and the shooters mind said Tom and boom! I had an incident years ago when a guy who shot a tom threw his bird over the fence and the wings flopped and turkey hit the leaves and I saw the turkey land so my heart raced and pounded for a moment then he jumped over the fence ..
I never raised my gun or nothing but that short moment I got a bit scared and ever since then I don't even carry a bird over my shoulders without a way to cover the bird and prefer a vest and make sure to tuck his head in so that someone don't see that head of bright colors moving around.  I would hate to think what someone who is a quick shot would have done. I talked to the hunter about the way he carried the bird.  Be  careful out there and be aware that your mind works fast.You can't depend on the other guy to be sure and safe.