FLOPPAGE?

[bbcoach]

We all have discussed the best shell, choke and gun combo to death.  One thing that I have noticed we haven't talked very much about is how quickly our combos kill turkeys.  Clark got me thinking about Terminal Energy.  Putting an extreme amount of shot in a turkeys head and neck to cause instant death (NO FLOPPAGE).  I know Dead is Dead but shouldn't we talk about how clean our kills are, especially since we debate 3 1/2 inch vs 3 inch and #4 lead over #10 TSS.  With today's tight patterns, more shot in the head and neck plus density of the shot plus velocity should equal quick humane kills vs us having to run to put our foot on the neck or even worse having to shoot the bird again or crippling a bird.  Most of my kills are from an 835 with 3 1/2" Hevi 7's with no floppage or very, very minimal floppage (Terminal Energy) at 15 to 38 yards.  Input?   

[THattaway]

It may look the same to some but there is a difference in flopping (broke neck shuffle is what I call it, involuntary convulsions etc.) and a turkey flopping with his head up or trying to right himself, gasping for air etc. You can cut one's head clean off and still have a pile of flopping. A turkey falling over stone dead without moving after being shot is not the norm in my experience. Seems to me if you rush out and touch them they seem to struggle even more.

[davisd9]

First bird I shot last year I was amazed at the bird just dropping and not making a move. A buddy was with me and he also killed. He videoed the hunt and when I watched the video my bird did in fact flop. I would have given my right leg saying he never moved but he did. Made me wonder how many other times in the heat of the moment I thought one did not flop when he did.

Now I did shoot a bird later in the year that I thought I missed, he was with a group. I shot and they all scattered and I could not see my bird in ground and there was no flopping. I was sure I missed. Was trying to call back one of the other birds for a friend but they never came. After a few minutes, as I was starting to tear up, my bird starting flopping. Never been so happy to see a flopping bird.

I what I am trying to say is the heat of the moment makes us miss things and some birds will flop and some will not, not matter what you shoot.


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[Gobble!]

What causes a bird to not flop? I've seen videos where bow hunters are cutting off these birds heads and they still flop. Are those not clean kills? In my mind as long as he goes down I don't care how long he flops.

[fountain2]

I'm pretty sure there is no answer to this.  I've had em fall like a rock and some flopped for a mile it seemed.  I've bleeding heads clean off and they flopped like no tomorrow. I've shot them with about all shot material available as well. No answer imo.  It's different on every one.  Doesn't matter to me..flop or no flop...just as long as we get to play the game and they ride home with me

[Happy]

I grew up raising chickens and turkeys. I have killed thousands of them and here is my theory. You can completely severe the head and they still flop. Sometimes it's delayed but most times not. However I do believe the is an immediate "shutdown" spot in the head. I believe if this spot is hit with sufficient energy then that's when you get the no flop result. With today's super tight patterns I just think we see it more. I personally have only show one that didn't flop. It did quiver for a few seconds tho. Just a theory and probably wrong.

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[SteelerFan]

It may look the same to some but there is a difference in flopping (broke neck shuffle is what I call it, involuntary convulsions etc.) and a turkey flopping with his head up or trying to right himself, gasping for air etc. You can cut one's head clean off and still have a pile of flopping. A turkey falling over stone dead without moving after being shot is not the norm in my experience. Seems to me if you rush out and touch them they seem to struggle even more.

[Bowguy]

This is always an interesting yet totally imo non factual discussion. I don't believe anyone has ever done studies on the brainwaves of turkeys shot n seen when exactly the bird is "dead" or if the flop equals half dead.
Who knows at what point death happens.  An interesting concept may be that at a certain point a certain number of nerve sensors or some such thing are severed the bird can't flop.
Think about this. Lots of bird guys have shot wings off upland birds. The things(wings) fall to the ground like wet socks. Shoot an upland birds head off,  can't be deader than no head n they seem to all flop.
Now a couple years ago I shot a bird w #4 longbeards. Stuff patterns super tight as we know n even w the big shot it was fairly close n I thought I missed. Bird was crushed w tons of shot hard enough to drive it to the ground. Thought I missed since it just dissappeared in the fairly short grass n never moved.
I personally don't think a bird flops unless it is dead, I also believe sometimes they don't n don't sweat too much the reasons. Dead is dead.
Also like to add having to put our foot on a crippled birds head means shooting off to the side, inferior pattern beyond its effective range

[dirt road ninja]

Bow kill body shots don't flop once they go down.

[Greg Massey]

What i do the week before season opens is go to fortune teller and see if i'm going to have a turkey flop or what kind of brainwaves i'm going to need in calling that bird. I want to be telepathy with communications with calling that bird. Flop or not Flop...does it really matter along as you get that bird...

[Bowguy]

Bow kill body shots don't flop once they go down.

Animals killed w archery tackle die from blood loss n not shock. I believe that's the dif

[Dtrkyman]

It is a rarity that a bird don't flop...only can think of a few over 27 springs and lots of birds...of course that is with the gun...bow kills in the body they never flop.


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[Marc]

 I clean shot the top of the head birds off last year, and that sucker was flopping 6 feet in the air.

I think when we sever the CNS system of a bird, it is going to flop most of the time. As long as a pellet breaches the spinal cord or the brain casing, it is unlikely that the game will get away, or suffer, but it probably will flop around a bit.

I saw a bird that did not flop, but fell over dead after the shot. Turns out this bird was not hit in the head. A poor shot, and a bit low. I had my suspicions that a pellet made its way to the heart and killed the bird.

[Gamblinman]

One thing I have noticed is that a relaxed bird with a good head shot is less likely to flop than one that is nervous or partially alarmed.

I have been shooting Federal Heavyweight the last few years and have less floppage than ever before.

[1iagobblergetter]

What causes a bird to not flop? I've seen videos where bow hunters are cutting off these birds heads and they still flop. Are those not clean kills? In my mind as long as he goes down I don't care how long he flops.

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