Fanning

[GobbleNut]

I think Stomper's comment and Bill C's comments on effectiveness are pretty spot on.  Ultimately, over-harvesting in certain areas will prove detrimental to the population and in areas where there was once excellent hunting will see dramatic declines in opportunities and success. 

There will still be birds around because not everyone will switch to this type of tactic just for the sake of tipping a bird over, but there will come a time when the folks that set seasons and limits have to address this due to declining populations.

Bill's observations about bird numbers in his area are noteworthy.  In an area once crawling with turkeys, the combination of long seasons, multiple bird limits and extremely effective tactics will aggregate to the detriment of the population quickly.  throw in a bad hatch or bad weather and bam, you are staring down a potential several year problem.

All of this is true,...butttt, the leap from decreasing populations to the conclusion that it is in any way being caused by "additive", rather than "compensatory", mortality due to human hunting and the tactics we use should be demonstrated before we condemn hunting tactics that we may not personally agree with.  The fundamental premise regarding spring gobbler hunting is that, because wild turkeys are polygamous and dominant gobblers do most of the breeding, most gobblers in any population are considered "surplus" and can be harvested without any impact on that population,...if the spring season is properly timed such that hens have been bred prior to the start of hunting. 

The use of "visual aids" (gobbler decoys and fans, in particular) certainly has an impact on the number of mature gobblers that are available to hunters each spring.  There is little evidence, however, to suggest that employing those tactics has any impact whatsoever on overall turkey populations.  In fact, it is highly unlikely, except in the rarest of circumstances, that they do. 

The bottom line is that the guy that kills his limit in two days using a fan or gobbler decoy has no more impact on the gobbler population in any area than the guy that kills his limit in a month by calling them in.  The impact on the turkey population in the area is exactly the same.  One could reasonably argue that the "decoyer/fanner" is not capable of killing his limit by using calling alone,...but that is a pretty elitist attitude,...not to mention pretty tenuous.

If we truly want to address declining turkey populations, we should be looking at changing land uses and habitat destruction,....and probably the biggest factor of all,...climate change,... which is resulting in widespread reproductive failure due to annual springtime flooding in areas where that did not take happen just a few decades ago. 

[Greg Massey]

I think Stomper's comment and Bill C's comments on effectiveness are pretty spot on.  Ultimately, over-harvesting in certain areas will prove detrimental to the population and in areas where there was once excellent hunting will see dramatic declines in opportunities and success. 

There will still be birds around because not everyone will switch to this type of tactic just for the sake of tipping a bird over, but there will come a time when the folks that set seasons and limits have to address this due to declining populations.

Bill's observations about bird numbers in his area are noteworthy.  In an area once crawling with turkeys, the combination of long seasons, multiple bird limits and extremely effective tactics will aggregate to the detriment of the population quickly.  throw in a bad hatch or bad weather and bam, you are staring down a potential several year problem.

All of this is true,...butttt, the leap from decreasing populations to the conclusion that it is in any way being caused by "additive", rather than "compensatory", mortality due to human hunting and the tactics we use should be demonstrated before we condemn hunting tactics that we may not personally agree with.  The fundamental premise regarding spring gobbler hunting is that, because wild turkeys are polygamous and dominant gobblers do most of the breeding, most gobblers in any population are considered "surplus" and can be harvested without any impact on that population,...if the spring season is properly timed such that hens have been bred prior to the start of hunting. 

The use of "visual aids" (gobbler decoys and fans, in particular) certainly has an impact on the number of mature gobblers that are available to hunters each spring.  There is little evidence, however, to suggest that employing those tactics has any impact whatsoever on overall turkey populations.  In fact, it is highly unlikely, except in the rarest of circumstances, that they do. 

The bottom line is that the guy that kills his limit in two days using a fan or gobbler decoy has no more impact on the gobbler population in any are than the guy that kills his limit in a month by calling them in.  The impact on the turkey population in the area is exactly the same.  One could reasonably argue that the "decoyer/fanner" is not capable of killing his limit by using calling alone,...but that is a pretty elitist attitude,...not to mention pretty tenuous.

If we truly want to address declining turkey populations, we should be looking at changing land uses and habitat destruction,....and probably the biggest factor of all,...climate change,... which is resulting in widespread reproductive failure due to annual springtime flooding in areas where that did not take happen just a few decades ago.
[/quote                                     x2

[HogBiologist]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

[Greg Massey]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

I'm like you. I'm getting tired of all this fanning and reappp.

[HogBiologist]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

"You People" lol. I will trust the opinion of someone with supporting data any day over someone who says "I see it all the time". Just think where we would be if we took the "because I saw it" attitude. We would have a Sasquatch or Nessie season and people complaining they couldn't find one so the biologists don't know nothing.

Agencies can't make scientific decisions on "because my brothers-sisters-cousins-friends-barber said so.

[Farmboy27]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

"You People" lol. I will trust the opinion of someone with supporting data any day over someone who says "I see it all the time". Just think where we would be if we took the "because I saw it" attitude. We would have a Sasquatch or Nessie season and people complaining they couldn't find one so the biologists don't know nothing.

Agencies can't make scientific decisions on "because my brothers-sisters-cousins-friends-barber said so.

Don't argue with va Turk whatever. He has seen it all and knows it all. He kills 99 percent of the birds he calls to and has proof that for every bird that is shot fanning, 2 others die from shame!  If you don't believe me about how amazingly great he is, just ask him.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

"You People" lol. I will trust the opinion of someone with supporting data any day over someone who says "I see it all the time". Just think where we would be if we took the "because I saw it" attitude. We would have a Sasquatch or Nessie season and people complaining they couldn't find one so the biologists don't know nothing.

Agencies can't make scientific decisions on "because my brothers-sisters-cousins-friends-barber said so.

Don't argue with va Turk whatever. He has seen it all and knows it all. He kills 99 percent of the birds he calls to and has proof that for every bird that is shot fanning, 2 others die from shame!  If you don't believe me about how amazingly great he is, just ask him.

Only 1/3 this week, hot shot. Farmer closed a gate that hasn't been closed for years and it saved that bird's life yesterday morning.  Shoulda been 2/3 but shoulda doesn't count in turkey hunting. 

Tomorrow starts a new week.... We'll see if we can keep the kill % above 50%.


Hogbiologist,
Aren't you an Arkansas guy? Please tell me what data the Arkansas DNR used to decide how to obliterate the turkey population?  Did they need more studies to confirm what hunters around the state were saying for years before Arkansas became a has-been in the group of turkey states that once were?  How many studies do you wildlife guys need before you actually listen to people that are in the field day, day out, year after year?

My brother is in South Dakota on Rosebud right now with a couple boys from Alabama that reap 75% of the turkeys they kill out west.  He personally won't do it but watched 2 get reaped yesterday afternoon.  2 crawls with modified gobbler decoys and 2 dead birds at 5 yards.

It's not good for the resource, man.  It's not good for the sport.  If you're into quantifiable data, book a ticket and see it done.  Go do it yourself.  You're not qualified to speak to the skepticism on the matter unless you've been there, done it or seen it. It'll blow your mind.

[Farmboy27]

Turkey populations are down in a lot of places. They are certainly down here in central PA. The thing is reaping is not legal here and I don't know anyone who has ever done it. So either reaping has nothing to do with the decline in this area and many other areas, or reaping and fanning are so incredibly effective and detrimental that it can affect the population in another state. Dang! Now that is a heck of a method!  Of course some guys on here hate fanning but also try to make you believe that they could single handed kill every turkey in their area with their tactical calling and decision making. If they are such incredibly efficient killers, maybe they are the problem. Lol.

[Greg Massey]

Turkey populations are down in a lot of places. They are certainly down here in central PA. The thing is reaping is not legal here and I don't know anyone who has ever done it. So either reaping has nothing to do with the decline in this area and many other areas, or reaping and fanning are so incredibly effective and detrimental that it can affect the population in another state. Dang! Now that is a heck of a method!  Of course some guys on here hate fanning but also try to make you believe that they could single handed kill every turkey in their area with their tactical calling and decision making. If they are such incredibly efficient killers, maybe they are the problem. Lol.
[/quote    x2

[Greg Massey]

The on thing I am noticing in this whole conversation is that no one has any data to back up and validate their OPINION. No one can give a number of hunters who actually fan/reap, or their success ratios. Anyone who tries to base success ratios off hunting videos would be laughed out of town by anyone with any scientific knowledge. Everybody has an opinion on what the cause of something is. But no one has any proof, that the cause they claim, if causing the effect. Look at the crossbow argument. Can any of you prove that it has added to the decline in deer numbers?  Because it has not. People scream that it will ruin the sport, but is has not.
Again I say; people need to learn the difference between opinion and fact.

Go to your local spot, find a bird in a field and reap him.  Then repeat.  Then repeat.  You'll have 3 dead turkeys.

You people want studies from accredited institutions when all you need to do is talk to someone in SE Kansas or parts of Nebraska where  the practice is most heavily utilized. 

If you want empirical data instead of accusing us of using anecdotal references, go reap some damn turkeys; in fact, book a ticket to Nebraska and buy 3 tags. Don't take a call. If you have any skill at crawling and any hand eye coordination, you'll see the results for yourself.

"You People" lol. I will trust the opinion of someone with supporting data any day over someone who says "I see it all the time". Just think where we would be if we took the "because I saw it" attitude. We would have a Sasquatch or Nessie season and people complaining they couldn't find one so the biologists don't know nothing.

Agencies can't make scientific decisions on "because my brothers-sisters-cousins-friends-barber said so.

Don't argue with va Turk whatever. He has seen it all and knows it all. He kills 99 percent of the birds he calls to and has proof that for every bird that is shot fanning, 2 others die from shame!  If you don't believe me about how amazingly great he is, just ask him.

x2

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

Turkey populations are down in a lot of places. They are certainly down here in central PA. The thing is reaping is not legal here and I don't know anyone who has ever done it. So either reaping has nothing to do with the decline in this area and many other areas, or reaping and fanning are so incredibly effective and detrimental that it can affect the population in another state. Dang! Now that is a heck of a method!  Of course some guys on here hate fanning but also try to make you believe that they could single handed kill every turkey in their area with their tactical calling and decision making. If they are such incredibly efficient killers, maybe they are the problem. Lol.

No one single handedly attributed declining turkey populations to reaping.  In some areas of the country, it has provided significant assistance in depleting the numbers in conjunction with poor hatches and increases in hunting pressure.

The discussion is really about what reaping means when married with increased hunting pressure, poor hatches, and other higher percentage tactics.  The discussion is about whether restraint is something we should be considering all of the dynamics influencing the future of wild turkey management. 

[owlhoot]

What did Arkansas do to obliterate the turkey population??

[silvestris]

Climate change?

I don't know how effective reaping is. I do know one thing from the videos I have suffered through, it is rather silly, and when it comes to turkey hunting, there is one thing I do not want to be, and that is fist pumping silly.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

What did Arkansas do to obliterate the turkey population??

Arkansas was formerly a premier turkey hunting state.  It's now surrounded by premier turkey hunting states( Missouri,Kentucky, etc) but is not even close to their caliber. 

What Arkansas did to obliterate the turkey population was essentially wait until it was in a state of disrepair to do anything.