Could use a little help Patterning

[Spyder]

Most of you guys on here know way more than me about patterning a shotgun, so I thought I would ask for opinions.

I have a SBE2, 26inch Barrel, here is the back story.

I ordered a Rob Roberts .655 after talking with him for a bit. Went out and shot it, ended up getting about 160 in the 10 and 340 in the 20 with point of impact being about 12 inches right. Called him and talked with him about it, to see his thoughts. He sent me a .660 to try.  Tried to shoot it, but the point of impact was about 2 feet low at forty and never could get the pattern centered on the target enough to tell the count. I ordered a red dot, went out this morning and shot bird loads till I got it centered on a ten inch circle. Put in some Mag Blends with the .660 and still way low. Now the problem is, I'm down to 4 shells out of two boxes and trying to decide my next move. Any advice? Thinking about going and grabbing some Longbeards and trying them.  Sorry for the long post.


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[taketheshot]

Sometimes it's something silly like this, but I have to ask just in case.
Is everything mounted securely on your red dot setup? - screws, mount etc.

I only ask because when I was sighting in my red dot I got on target, took another shot to confirm and for some reason it was off. Then back to my light loads to get back on target, switch to my turkey loads and and suddenly I'm off again without any adjustments made. It was driving me mad.

Turns out I put loctite on all the screws except the ones mounting the red dot (FF3 in this case) to the mount. The screws backed out and the FF3 was wobbly. I couldn't find a wall close enough to bang my head against...

[Spyder]

Thanks for the reply, I did recheck all the mounts and they are tight. I'll get it figured out. Thanks again man


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[NYlogbeards]

Are you using a rest or something to stabilize the gun, if not it could be human error or it could be the choke isn't tightened and throwing the load.

[Gobble!]

What kind of red dot? I have had some in the past that cannot hold up to turkey loads.

[rpinks]

Make sure barrel and stock is over tight. Tighten with hand and then use channel locks with something to protect gun. Tighten on or to more clicks then mark with  something. I do this on my choke and all my barrels . Learned this on this site. If the red dot is on receiver and not the barrel it will move with different velocity shells.

[SumToy]

What kind of red dot? I have had some in the past that cannot hold up to turkey loads.

now shoot the gun at around 50 to 60 feet with junk loads to set sights.  (I set it about 1 inch high)  Then try one shot at 40 with good load.  Now if you know you holding the gun and you have had two different chokes and both shot different place I would call Rob.   

[kcrebel]

If you aren't shooting off a rest you need to start there.  Nothing induces shooter error like hard kicking turkey loads. 
NEVER over tighten a barrel nut EVER.  Period.  Any time someone suggests using a mechanic's tool on your gun walk away quickly.  I have shot guns all my life and I have never had anyone tell me to use a tool to over tighten the barrel nut.  Hand tight is not only the most efficient way to reinstall a barrel it is the only way to seat it consistently.  Using a tool will over tighten it creating a problem and also provides a great opportunity to destroy the finish of your barrel nut.  If barrel nuts were designed to be tightened using a mechanic's tool they would be octagon shaped for wrenches instead of knurled for hand tightening. 
After getting a rest have a buddy shoot same setup and see if the pattern moves. 
If the problem isn't found there then I would try a different choke tube manufacturer.  Ask said buddy if he has one you can try. 
I don't think it's the red dot since the problem was there prior to using a red dot correct?
Keep us posted on what develops. 

[Longshanks]

That is a fine gun. If it were me I would start over. Take it apart, clean the gun, and deep clean the barrel. Make sure everything goes back together right. Take all the sights off of that gun and go shoot the factory beads with the factory chokes with quality lead loads to make sure everything is straight there. If it is good there you should be able to put a quality choke in that gun and be fine with the factory bead or beads for the mean time.  Although that sounds like a lot you could do it in a couple of hours. Until you start from that base you don't know what you have.  I've seen folks run Pure Gold, Rhino, Kicks, Comp-n-choke, Jellyhead and all of them shoot factory beads. Hitting what you are aiming at inside 40yds is all I would be concerned about. Provided everything is straight with that gun you could shoot Win LB 6's or Win XX 3" 6's out of the factory full choke and get it done if you get pressed for time. Check your local gunsmiths to see if they have any used turkey chokes that will work in your gun. I have picked up quality chokes cheap that way.

[Kevin6Q]

I feel for you with 4 shells left. I used to compete in biathlon and finding the right .22 round which worked well in the cold, cycles perfectly and was accurate was time consuming and I bought a lot of ammo. Biathlon ammo isn't cheap at $15-25/box of 50. When I found a lot number which met my expectations I bought  the stuff by the case to ensure I had a good supply for the season. Saved my pennies and bought another case when the price was right. The unchosen ammo was used for plinking and in my kids guns when learning how to shoot.  The match rifle barrels season in and most shoot better after 20- 50 rounds after cleaning and continue to shoot well for a few hundred round. There is some variation to this and I don't know if shotgun barrels also need to season into a particular load. If so a lot of ammo will be used just to bring the bore into its seasoned state.

Patterning the shotgun was a similar process. Buy a lot of different ammo and find what works; then buy up a bunch. You will spend a bunch of cash and what you're buying is faith in your gun to put the shot where you aimed it. In any activity heavily reliant on equipment having blind trust in your gear is paramount to success. Anything which introduces doubt will have you perceverating on the weak point and if there is a miss you'll go right to the known weak point of the system. If your gear is all trustworthy and you miss its on you and while a miss can really suck, it doesn't feel as though I've wasted my time. Preparation is key to success. Prep will also define limitations to the equipment allowing you to operate within them and find success.

This diatribe on prep is intended to serve as a welcome to the brotherhood of someone who cares about an activity enough to want the best preparation you can get. Think outside of the box. A designated turkey load might not be the best for your setup.  A number 6 shot going 1200fps doesn't care if it came out of a designed 10ga. turkey load or a .410. The KE is exactly the same. When you find a good load stick with it and marketing be damned. A dense pattern is a dense pattern.

[Longshanks]

My best results have always come from starting with the clean up, deep clean, checking POA/POI with factory chokes and then moving forward. Best to go back to simple when you got so much hi-tech going on that its shooting two feet low. If you just want to run what you have go back to the RR .655 that is shooting a foot to the right and sight in. Easy way to get hunting now and do the other in the off season. Only problem is if you have scope problems you don't want to find out when Ol'Tom is standing in front of you. Can improve your density with other loads/chokes if 160's is something you want to improve on. If your red dot will not stay sighted you can get some Truglo Magnum Pro series sights that are all metal and adjustable. Just another thought.

[BINK McCARTY]

I feel for you with 4 shells left. I used to compete in biathlon and finding the right .22 round which worked well in the cold, cycles perfectly and was accurate was time consuming and I bought a lot of ammo. Biathlon ammo isn't cheap at $15-25/box of 50. When I found a lot number which met my expectations I bought  the stuff by the case to ensure I had a good supply for the season. Saved my pennies and bought another case when the price was right. The unchosen ammo was used for plinking and in my kids guns when learning how to shoot.  The match rifle barrels season in and most shoot better after 20- 50 rounds after cleaning and continue to shoot well for a few hundred round. There is some variation to this and I don't know if shotgun barrels also need to season into a particular load. If so a lot of ammo will be used just to bring the bore into its seasoned state.


AMEN BROTHER!!!!!! PREACH ON!!!!!
Patterning the shotgun was a similar process. Buy a lot of different ammo and find what works; then buy up a bunch. You will spend a bunch of cash and what you're buying is faith in your gun to put the shot where you aimed it. In any activity heavily reliant on equipment having blind trust in your gear is paramount to success. Anything which introduces doubt will have you perceverating on the weak point and if there is a miss you'll go right to the known weak point of the system. If your gear is all trustworthy and you miss its on you and while a miss can really suck, it doesn't feel as though I've wasted my time. Preparation is key to success. Prep will also define limitations to the equipment allowing you to operate within them and find success.

This diatribe on prep is intended to serve as a welcome to the brotherhood of someone who cares about an activity enough to want the best preparation you can get. Think outside of the box. A designated turkey load might not be the best for your setup.  A number 6 shot going 1200fps doesn't care if it came out of a designed 10ga. turkey load or a .410. The KE is exactly the same. When you find a good load stick with it and marketing be damned. A dense pattern is a dense pattern.

[BINK McCARTY]

I'll start by saying you are on the right track by using Rob's Final Strut chokes and gettin' advice from him... I have this EXACT same set-up....gun,choke,load....EVERYTHING!!! I got 211 in a 10" circle with SBE 2 ,Final Strut .655 choke and 3.5" MagBlend. First things first....make sure the gun is clean,and EVERYTHING is tight....barrel nut,ALL screws on your red -dot,choke tube....etc....etc....etc....
1st= Shoot at a 3'x3' BLANK target (the target needs to be AT LEAST 3'x3' in order to see ALL your pattern)
2nd= Shoot light target loads to get your red-dot on target....use loads that are as close to the same velocity as your turkey loads as you can get.
3rd=Run a boresnake thru barrel after every shot.
4th=AFTER you have determined which loads you wanna try ,start off with the appropriate choke matched with it. Shoot at 40yds.( closer shots can be tried after you determine the best load/choke combo at 40yds.) after the 40yd shot draw a 10" circle around the most dense portion of your pattern,count the number of hits, write it and all other pertinent info.(yardage,shell length,shot size ,shot weight, choke used on the target for comparison  to others.
5th=Shoot different shells thru every choke you have until you find the one that performs best,once you find the BEST load/choke combination you can back up in 5yd. increments and keep doing so until you fail to put AT LEAST 100 pellets in a 10" circle.
6th= Adjust your sites so that your POI are the same as POA ( POI=point of impact/ POA=point of aim).
Lastly...ifn you want to shoot at a closer distance feel free to do so....I would shoot at no closer than 15yds. as your pattern is gonna show you what you need to know!!!
I hope this and ALL the other posts' on here help you out!!! Let us know how things work out,and  any other questions or help you need don't hesitate to holla!!!! I realize that not everyone will agree with this and that's ok with me....I'm giving you this advice based on how I've done it and how I've helped folks,both new to our sport and seasoned veterans and have had great success in doin' so. GOOD LUCK,and again,anything else you may need or want PLEASE feel free to gimme a shout!!!!