Tight 10. cirlce pattern vs. bigger even pattern?

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Well I'm not trying to stick up for Hevi-13 loads, but I can tell you the 7's will easily penetrate better than a lead 6 even if it is going 1300fps.  I have never ever shot plum through a bird at 45yds with lead 6's period with any shot other than what might went through the neck and not hit no bone.  7's penetrated all the way though the breast and though the other side on some shot.   6's wouldn't come close to that from what I have seen.  Almost every shot penetrated through the head and neck completely at 45yds.

[redleg06]

Not really sure what the advantage of 300 vs. 200 pellets in 10 in. would be other than putting more pellets in a dead bird.

That's my view or point I was trying to make, are we overlooking overall patterns by trying to tighten up too much? I agree, not sure what the number is, but so many in a 10in. cirlce is enough at some poit? So wouldn't it make more sense to have some on the edge of the 10in. circle for room to error? My exact point.

I think most of the guys on here do try to look for nice even patterns and consistency within them.  Granted there is a point where you are no longer being practical in tightening the pattern so much that you have no room for error while hunting but most guys you see regularly posting on this forum seem to be putting in the time patterning so that they can find that right combo to get good numbers AND a even pattern IMO.   

[Todd1700]

So all the reading where many state Hevi has the same knock down due to it's density, as 2 sizes smaller than lead, are all just myths?

Well first of all I may be splitting hairs but I have always disagreed with the term "knock down". Bullets or shot from shotgun shells don't "knock" anything down. They kill by penetrating into vital areas and organs.

Hevi Shot being denser and heavier than lead will arrive on target with more kinetic energy than lead if both are launched at the same velocity. More kinetic energy = more penetration. I think it would be more accurate to say that hevi 13 6's or 7's will penetrate and kill just as well as bigger lead shot at equal velocities. Forget the knock down stuff.

All that said, if you drop the velocity of the hevi shot down 200 fps or more below the speed of the lead shot it kinda negates the kinetic energy advantage of the denser than lead shot. How much? I'd have to run the numbers through the formula for kinetic energy to see. But speed is just as important in that equation as the weight of the projectile.

I have used hevi 13 6's and mag blend. Killed turkey's with both. The mag blend is launched at a velocity sufficient to see the superior qualities of DTL shot. I did not like the Hevi 13 straight 6's which are much slower. Did not like they way they performed on turkey's and lost a bird with them that would have been toast if a lead number 5 shell had been in my gun.

I personally do not see the sense of loading a shell with DTL shot and then slowing the velocity down to the point that it doesn't kill any better than lead. That is why I would only use Mag Blend, Nitro's or the Winchester extended range stuff. They can keep the 1050 fps stuff.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Well I'm going to show you that what I said about Hevi-13 #7's going at a rated 1090fps will smoke a lead load #6 going at even 1300fps.  I don't care much about what the kinetic energy charts say in a gellatin mass either and how much this shot will penetrate.  That's all a bunch of crap to me.  Here's was a live 24lb bird shot at 45yds.  I still have yet to see lead 5's do that.  That bird was smoked before he hit the ground.  Look at the damage and see for yourself.  I have no reason whatsoever to lie.

http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,1421.msg16264.html#msg16264

[Todd1700]

So all the reading where many state Hevi has the same knock down due to it's density, as 2 sizes smaller than lead, are all just myths?

Well first of all I may be splitting hairs but I have always disagreed with the term "knock down". Bullets or shot from shotgun shells don't "knock" anything down. They kill by penetrating into vital areas and organs.

Hevi Shot being denser and heavier than lead will arrive on target with more kinetic energy than lead if both are launched at the same velocity. More kinetic energy = more penetration. I think it would be more accurate to say that hevi 13 6's or 7's will penetrate and kill just as well as bigger lead shot at equal velocities. Forget the knock down stuff.

All that said, if you drop the velocity of the hevi shot down 200 fps or more below the speed of the lead shot it kinda negates the kinetic energy advantage of the denser than lead shot. How much? I'd have to run the numbers through the formula for kinetic energy to see. But speed is just as important in that equation as the weight of the projectile.

I have used hevi 13 6's and mag blend. Killed turkey's with both. The mag blend is launched at a velocity sufficient to see the superior qualities of DTL shot. I did not like the Hevi 13 straight 6's which are much slower. Did not like the way they performed on turkey's and lost a bird with them that would have been toast if a lead number 5 shell had been in my gun.

I personally do not see the sense of loading a shell with DTL shot and then slowing the velocity down to the point that it doesn't kill any better than lead. That is why I would only use Mag Blend, Nitro's or the Winchester extended range stuff. They can keep the 1050 fps stuff.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

The numbers you are putting up are attainable with lead

He got 152 with H13 3-2-7.  How many people attain 152 in 10", and probably 400+ total in 20" with 3" Lead shells?  Not many.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

The numbers you are putting up are attainable with lead

He got 152 with H13 3-2-7.  How many people attain 152 in 10", and probably 400+ total in 20" with 3" Lead shells?  Not many.

I agree.  I haven't seen any shot gun that would consistently put 150 shot in a 10" at a true 40yds with lead #6  loads.  I hear the stories of people that say they got one that will.  But I have yet to see it live and in person when it counts.  

You can tell I'm from the show-me state.  

[S.C.C]

Mossturd 835 PURE GOLD .670 old WIN. SUP. HV 3.5" 2oz #6 PB....140-160 all day every day!!
Same gun/choke old H13 3.5" 2.25oz #6 hevi....200-230 all day every day!!

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

I tried last year's H13 3-2-7 shells through 3 different chokes in the same 870, and shot 280, 255, and one that I didn't even count that was probably 150+.

The choke you use matters, and each gun will perform differently with any single choke.  Even the worst combo with last year's H13 3-2-7 broke 150.

Someone else mentioned using a Jelly Head.  It will not be a godsend in every single gun.  Especially the .665 choke.  All of this stuff is different from gun to gun, and from shell to shell.

I shot 159 the other day with 1.75 ounces of H13 #6 in a BPS and a Star Dot choke, but there weren't nearly as many pellets in between my 10" and 20" circles, as you'll get with the #7's.  

150 is still very huntable.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

old H13 3.5" 2.25oz #6 hevi....200-230 all day every day!!

I see you said "old". 

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I was talking about 150 shot consistently with #6 lead loads day in and day out and avg 150 shot in a true 10 circle at a true 40yds.   

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I think my 835 would come close, but I don't think it would do it day in and day out. 

[S.C.C]

   You have to take the time and money to match a gun/choke and shell combo and stick with
it once you attain what you want in your patterns plus the performance on turkeys consistently!!
Just because it looks good on paper does not guarantee it will kill!!

[S.C.C]

I think my 835 would come close, but I don't think it would do it day in and day out. 

I have to test my gun,choke and ammo combos in all conditions so I always know what to expect
when I pull the trigger...winter spring summer and fall!!!

[Cutt]

Mossturd 835 PURE GOLD .670 old WIN. SUP. HV 3.5" 2oz #6 PB....140-160 all day every day!!
Same gun/choke old H13 3.5" 2.25oz #6 hevi....200-230 all day every day!!

That's a 3.5 in. though, we are talking about a 3in.?