OldGobbler

OG Gear Store
Sum Toy
Dave Smith
Wood Haven
North Mountain Gear
North Mountain Gear
turkeys for tomorrow

News:

only use regular PayPal to provide purchase protection

Main Menu

Why population plummeted?????

Started by Triple Gobble, March 16, 2015, 08:49:23 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

owlhoot

Quote from: Gumby on March 17, 2015, 01:48:14 PM

Quote from: Gooserbat on March 17, 2015, 01:45:04 AM
Poultry industry.  To many airborne disease for which wild fowl have no immunity.
This is true as well...I started to post this but it is just a theory that only a few people think is valid.
Blackhead?

Full strut

Quote from: Tony Harris on March 17, 2015, 11:27:43 AM
I live in central AR and hunt Winona WMA which is probably the most used WMA in AR simple because of where it is located. We had a good hatch a couple years ago but that was the bright star of the last decade in our area. I would have to agree habitat is what has hurt us most but the wet springs can't be overlooked. All of the above mentioned things; predators, nesting habitat, wet springs and poaching all have contributed to our decline. Maybe not one thing by itself is to blame but you add them together and the birds have a hard time raising a good brood. I have noticed some cutting of underbrush in areas of Winona and hope this leads to more.

I know it isn't popular to say and have been scolded before but I wish we would go to a one bird limit till things improve. Maybe not on private lands or leases but at least on our WMA's. I know, gobblers don't have poults but with our late season I have to wonder if we are bumping too many hens off the nest. One and done would get most hunters out of the woods in my opinion.

id be up for a one bird limit for a couple of years. we also need to have some of our WMA's dedicated for things other than duck hunting. ive been duck hunting in arkansas since i was 10 but our levee systems on most WMAs are designed to flood up the area which is poor habitat for turkeys. if a WMA is off the flyway they really ought to stop attempting to flood it just for woodie shoots. no one shoots them things in arkansas anyways!

silvestris

Perfect storm.  It has hit the entire Southeast US.
"[T]he changing environment will someday be totally and irrevocably unsuitable for the wild turkey.  Unless mankind precedes the birds in extinction, we probably will not be hunting turkeys for too much longer."  Ken Morgan, "Turkey Hunting, A One Man Game

HogBiologist

More than 6 years of bad hatches in a row. Cold wet springs and other weather factors. Some spring freezes that knocked back mast production. The population can't rebound with poor hatches. If we could get several good hatches, you will see a rebound.
Certified Wildlife Biologist

Spurs

i think that the turkey population hit it climax back in the early 2000s.  Now, we are in a small rebound to what this states habitat can sustain.  We will see minor ups and downs from here on, but never like it was for about 5 years. 
This year is going to suck!!!

Gooserbat

Quote from: owlhoot on March 17, 2015, 10:30:37 PM
Quote from: Gumby on March 17, 2015, 01:48:14 PM

Quote from: Gooserbat on March 17, 2015, 01:45:04 AM
Poultry industry.  To many airborne disease for which wild fowl have no immunity.
This is true as well...I started to post this but it is just a theory that only a few people think is valid.
Blackhead?
I was thinking LT but possibly both.  Really there are several factors, wet weather/bad hatches, disease, predation, the list goes on and on.  I've seen the Eastern population rise and fall here in OK twice.  Its like a 10+ year cycle both times. 
NWTF Booth 1623
One of my personal current interests is nest predators and how a majority of hunters, where legal bait to the extent of chumming coons.  However once they get the predators concentrated they don't control them.

J Hook Max

Your population declined due to several bad hatches. The population is rebounding because the state took drastic action and reduced the limit and the season.
We also have declining populations in Alabama and our state has done nothing and continues to do nothing. I just don't see a good outcome for us.

Old Gobbler

#22
Florida turkey hunting...specifically central  and southern Florida is living on borrowed time folks , I say this with the deepest regret , as I type this .....there is a total for the ETIRE state not just the Osceola turkey in the central and southern regions  , a total of only about 700 gobblers harvested on public wma's , that's public , but in the south and central most of the suitable  property that holds turkeys is in public holding , cause the rest has been developed - you read that correctly ...700 turkeys in total for the whole state on public wma areas those numbers are not lies , those are the check station numbers most of those harvested are in the hybrid and eastern zones

the majority  of south zone hunting in south Florida is mainly  comprised of not private land but of public property that is severely mismanaged - there are exactly  2 wma's in the south zone that don't require a permit to hunt , the year before yours truly. .., I think 3 were checked out in one of them , some of those were ones I called up -- I won't ever return to either one of these wma's even though I've killed dozens of Osceolas in them over a 30 year period , it's sad how low the population has dropped and sad the heathen hoards of tv brainwashed deer hunter turned turkey hunters swarm the area for a few gobblers - the state has mismanaged the program in there , partially due to the obsession with creating one as a "wilderness area" and not doing any prescribed burns and mostly the sacred cow .....the Florida panther ...though shalt not endanger the panther population

The central zone ....Orlando south to Okeechobee area ....the area is rapidly being developed,  yes there is some holdings on private ranches and larger wma's but that won't last forever , houses and neighborhoods are popping up , with that comes the advent of the walk in hunter with the .22 -- right now there are approximately 250 turkeys harvested on wma's in this area , the private holdings are far larger and hold thousands of birds  , but in due time the private holdings will succumb to development and progress - thw state is grabbing up property , some prime habitat is to be converted into storm water treatment eras , or into park like areas that are missmanaged too --and like southern florida all that will be left is public wma's , in 20 years time they will be far less Osceolas , today I estimate , and my estimate is way more accurate than that of the state's , I estimate that there is less than 20,000 Osceola turkeys Orlando area and south ,in 20 years time there will be about 5,000 -  speaking of Orlando .....anyone been there lately it's the next sprawling Miami waiting to happen --

The population of Florida (people) stands at 19 million,  the STATE estimates that in 2035 the population will be 42 million - turkey hunting will be a thing of the past , at least how we know it --there will be turkey hunting on a few large ranches and the price tag will resemble that of a Dall Ram hunt ---

The quota hunt program in fl. 25 years ago was a mail in system where you would get drawn 75% of the time , today it takes about 4 years worth of preference points to get a good permit , 20 years from now , you may need a permit to hunt any wma , and the good areas will be next to impossible to get , similar to the big game permits out west for pronghorn etc..where it takes 10 years to get one

The board of directors for the Florida nwtf in thier infinite stupidity have done possibly two of the very worst things possible ....despite some strong objections from wiser bod past and present,  they swayed the state into 2 rule changes , all day turkey hunting.... (roost shooting problem) and making it legal to shoot 2 gobblers in the same day -- there will be a increased harvest , followed by a substantial drop in population , a population drop similar to Pintail ducks in North America - we are seeing some creative turkey hunting trickery like a sudden intrest in people bringing youth hunters , even bringing kids that are not even thiers to sit with them while they pop off a early season Osceola , also having scores of family members apply for them on quotas and then being guested in by thier sister or the likes , loopholes abound

There is a very , very good possibility that the Osceola could be placed on the Federally threatened or endangered list in our lifetime,  as a example I think there are 1,500 breeding pairs of bald eagles in the state , shoot one of those and see how many years you get in the slammer

The state needs to fo the following actions immediately,especially in the central and southern zones and especially on wma's  some of these rules are going to be unpopular

1) 12 o'clock hunting , withdraw the all day hunting

2) 1 bird per day , perhaps 1 per season , if the populations don't correct themselves -

3) rule change-- you may not physically touch a harvested gobbler until you write on the back of your hunting permit , the date and time of the harvest in permanent ink-- $5,000 dollar fine for being caught , revenue from that goes directly to the turkey program

4) 6 inch beard rule , it's in place in Mississippi and few other states , it needs to be deployed here, no more sexually immature male Osceolas

5)no more guests with the quota hunting permits  , at least ones with a gun sharing the permit -

6) roll the special op permits into the regular permit hunts and stop the prostitution of the system

7) increase the turkey stamp to $50 for residents and hire some more turkey biologists , game wardens and equipment to due more prescribed burns - and give the wardens and biologists serving all ready a good rais of pay

8) $20 permit application fee for ALL quota hunts, funds go to aquiring more property

9) end the loopholes with the youth season , sorry folks I know there was some good intentions with this , but we all know what's going on , the legal guardian , grandparent, parent of the child shall accompany the child while hunting , if it's your buddies or sisters child , bring them too the three of you can share the moment , people are actively recruiting any child they can locate and putting them down on a application - on opening day of the regular season it's totally amazing the sudden drop in enthusiasm with folks bringing thier new found apprentice hunters , all the kiddies have disappeared on the real opener -- when I was a kid I hunted with my dad every single day of the season , not just some loophole day the weekend before , I like the youth season but it is being played out and gamed out

with any luck our next generation of turkey hunters will have a huntable population of these amazing birds ,

Remember there is only ONE PLACE IN THIS WORLD YOU CAN FIND A TRUE OSCEOLA , and it is smack dab in the middle of the most rapidly developed area in the country . This isn't about who gets to kill what , this is about extinction of a subspecies , many of the old timer florida turkey hunters down here feel exactly like I do

Shannon
:wave:  OG .....DRAMA FREE .....

-Shannon

Spurs

Be careful what you wish for.  Several rule changes that OG mentioned have been put in place in AR, as well as other states.  These states are having a difficult time reversing these restrictions due to higher numbers of liberals that have slipped into power in the recent years. 

What needs to happen is less dependency on our government and more reliance on ourselves. 

I, for one, speak my mind when I am on public ground.  I will flat out tell ppl where I am going.  I get there early.  And I will not do anything to hurt the population.  Killing 2 birds in one day is ridiculous.  I Used to be the one that would have jumped at the opportunity, but with age, my greed has lessened. 

In other words, do not rely on the government, rely on you and your fellow hunter.....the government has been proven to screw good things up on occasion.
This year is going to suck!!!

Ihuntoldschool

Why?  Not enough diversity in the gene pool in my opinion.   Look at how the wild turkeys were restored and relocated to new areas. There was little to any genetic diversity as most if not all of the birds they re-located by trapping them with nets were so closely related.  For awhile the population grew steadily, rapidly and exploded in these new areas where wild turkeys were introduced. But it was only short lived and that I believe is what we are now experiencing. No genetic diversity meant a lot of inbreeding which led to little to no resistance to disease and slower growth rates with poor reproductive efforts.

Ihuntoldschool

Not just Arkansas, but across multiple states and different regions of the country.

highwaygun

#26
I hunt zone 5 and zone 3 in arkansas every year. I haven't had any issues with turkey numbers being down in my area at all. My only problem this year was getting time to go. I have killed my 2 birds every year for the last 11 years I believe. Up until this year I was averaging only carrying a gun for about 5 hours to fill my 2 tags in the last 5 seasons. The 2 I killed this year both had buddies with them. 1st was in zone 3 it was the 5th bird killed on 400 acres and he came up with a buddy. Both were 3 years old or older. 2nd bird was in zone 5 and he was a big 2 year old with 2 more Tom's with him. I feel that some places are down and some are better than ever. I also believe that harvest number are a terrible way of determining the number of birds in a state. In arkansas you get your turkey tags when you buy your deer tags so there is no real way of knowing how successful the season was.  Say there was 15,000 turkey killed this year and 17,000 last year you would think last year was a better right. Now if they sold turkey tags separate of the deer tags and we knew that 50,000 hunters bought tags last year and only 30,000 hunters bought tags this year it would be obvious that this year was alot better of a harvest. AGFC only cares about Mallards and Rainbow Trout anyway and they are to dumb to get that. If they weren't idiots we could have the best turkey hunting in the US. And if not dam close to it.

silvestris

I am wondering if aflatoxin is not the problem from the deer "feeders".  I wish they would totally outlaw supplemental feeding/baiting.
"[T]he changing environment will someday be totally and irrevocably unsuitable for the wild turkey.  Unless mankind precedes the birds in extinction, we probably will not be hunting turkeys for too much longer."  Ken Morgan, "Turkey Hunting, A One Man Game

Strick9

1. Natural Cycling +

2. Loss of habitat +

3. Poor Management +

4. Lack of Predator Control +

5. Spring/Growing Season Burns in late April through May.

Truly we can only control 3,4 & 5. But those are HUGE factors !
LowCountryWildlifeManagement
Knowing Wildlife beyond Science
Genesis 9;2

Ihuntoldschool

I would also love to see a  complete ban on the supplemental feeding/baiting.   It is known to help deer spread diseases, seems reasonable that it might apply for other game animals.  In my state they keep it legal 8 months out of the year except for a few select counties, despite what they know about how it helps spread disease amongst the deer when they congregate at a bait site.