Is an eastern sometimes considered an Osceola

[bradbathome]

I am planning a trip to FL to try for an Osceola and I have been looking at the map from the NWTF on the line for easterns/Osceola or what they consider the line. I will be hunting about 75 miles below the line which I would think is Osceola country but I'm sure some easterns also. I am trying for a grand slam. My question is if you shoot an eastern in the counties below the line does the NWTF consider it an Osceola in your grand slam???   Thanks

[snapper1982]

The better question is if you know it is an eastern would you consider it an Osceola to complete your slam? I know I would not knowing it is an eastern and not an Osceola.

[bradbathome]

If I knew it was an eastern absolutely not. But I have been studying the Osceola on the net for about a month now because I have never hunted anything but easterns. I have seen pictures of wings of so called Osceola that look like easterns and wings of easterns that look like osceolas so I know there is an gray area.

[cracker4112]

Its the only species with a line and no hybrids on the map. Those if us who live here know that the line is just that, a man-made line that no one told the turkeys about!

There are hybrids on both sides of the line, and true Osceolas above the line on both coasts.  In the central part of the state south of the line there are birds you would swear are all full eastern.

If you have to have a "true" Osceola, I'd be south of Orlando...

[Hooksfan]

Well here we go............
I have some ideas that may raise a few eyebrows, but I would say you would be very safe calling it an Osceola for the purpose of a Grand Slam if it was below that line.  I have had some interest in this topic for a while and have spoken with more than one biologist about it.  I even had one tell me that there was no DNA difference between an Osceola and an Eastern. 
I know there are certain characteristics that are attributed to the Osceola---Lower weight, more black barring on the wings, darker color, less vocal, etc.  Those characteristics alone would describe to a T the birds I grew up hunting in Southeastern, Louisiana.  It is my belief that those birds which inhabit the swampy regions along the gulf coast could technically meet the qualifications to be called Osceola.  Now, I am sure Florida and the money brought in from the monopoly they have on the term Osceola would offer some resistance to that theory. 
I can say that I have hunted Easterns in a good many states and more years than I would like to think have passed.  I would also say that even the birds(Easterns) I have hunted and killed in North Louisiana is a totally different bird from the ones I grew up with in Southeastern Louisiana.  I do believe it is probably more likely that the truest strains of Osceola would be confined to the South of that line, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to not believe that if you drew a line from the northern tip of Florida all the way west to the Mississippi River, that those birds would at least be a hybrid of what is called an Osceola and Eastern. 
Just my two cents.

[mossyhorn9]

I have hunted Florida all my life and have killed many turkeys both easterns and osceolas and the only difference I see is the length of the spurs. I have found that the spurs are much longer on the osceolas. Other than that , I can't tell them apart.

[bradbathome]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess if I'm lucky enough to kill a bird on public land in FL on ground I have never seen I will be super happy either way. Good luck to all this year.

[zelmo1]

  The only way to get the Grand Slam is to consult the NWTF map. I have never hunted in Florida but do plan to, I will hunt well south of the "line" to complete my slam.

[Gooserbat]

I have opinions I shall not state. 

If its below the line and your happy with it, that's all that matters.

[VA_Birdhunter]

I have opinions I shall not state. 

If its below the line and your happy with it, that's all that matters.

[bradbathome]

I have opinions I shall not state. 

If its below the line and your happy with it, that's all that matters.

Share your opinion. Your not going to hurt my feelings

[guesswho]

Growing up in Central Florida I'd want to be at least South of I-4, and preferably South of Hwy 70.   But the N"WTF" draws the line.

[GobbleNut]

In terms of the record books, "the line" as designated by the NWTF is "the Gospel".  Shoot a bird 100 yards north of that line and he is not considered an Osceola and shoot one 100 yards south of the line in the same general spot, and technically, he is considered to be one.  Never mind that they might have been hatched from the same brood.

As has been stated, the separation of the Eastern and Osceola as subspecies was done before the advent of DNA testing, and was based on visual/appearance/taxonomic differences thought to be distinctive and significant at the time by those that do such things.  If you believe that DNA testing on turkeys and such is accurate (which some suggest might not be the case, from things I have heard recently), Eastern wild turkeys and Osceola wild turkeys are genetically so similar that they probably should not be considered as separate subspecies. 

Be that as it may, we turkey hunters have come to accept them as a bird worthy of special note.  That is okay with me.  It gives me an excuse to ponder going to Florida to hunt on occasion. 

[silvestris]

I question the motives of the genius who first coined the phrase, Grand Slam.  I really question the motives of the genius who first coined the phrase, World Slam.  Everyone knows you have not truly completed a World Slam until you have taken a feral turkey with big feet from New Zealand.

[MiamiE]

I would want to hunt south of Highway 70 to be 100% sure.