Is an eastern sometimes considered an Osceola

[Turkeyman11]

First of all let me say good luck!  Hunting Florida is an awesome experience.  I have been fortunate enough to hunt there four different times and have harvested seven gobblers.  I hunted just South, approximately 70-80 miles, below "the line".  Don't have any idea whether they were true Osceolas or not, but each time I connected I thanked the good lord for the opportunity.  My name might not be in any book, but as far as I'm concerned I accomplished my goal of a grand slam by finishing with an Eastern in Missouri.

[turkey buster]

I'd love to kill the slam...but I've never seen a $1500 turkey!

1)Rios and Merrimams you can tell them apart.

2) Easterns that don't border a Rio "line" you can tell apart. Then you get into them eastern/rio mix and then it's the same as a eastern/Osceola.

I'd say go to the southern most tip of Florida and start calling as you walk north. Once you hear one plot that on your GPS, call the NWTF collect, give them all the info, get a certified letter,and then go shoot that turkey.  Then you'll have the "slam"

[GobbleNut]

. But hey...if it blows your skirt up...go for it.

I absolutely refuse to hunt turkeys in my skirt!   

[turkey buster]

Have you killed your Arizona/New Mexico Goulds turkey yet? Lol

[GobbleNut]

Have you killed your Arizona/New Mexico Goulds turkey yet? Lol

  I started holding my breath a few years ago, thinking that my time was right around the corner.  ...I am starting to turn a little blue.

[darn2ten]

I grew up hunting in the central part of the state around the Green Swamp area. All the birds I ever killed around those swamps I would definetly consider all Osceola. I also hunted quite a bit up around Dixie and Taylor Co. Those birds were a little bigger and showed characteristics of both Eastern and Osceola, Hybrids. I now live in Tennessee and these Easterns are definetly different than either strain of those birds.

[fldoghunter]

I am planning a trip to FL to try for an Osceola and I have been looking at the map from the NWTF on the line for easterns/Osceola or what they consider the line. I will be hunting about 75 miles below the line which I would think is Osceola country but I'm sure some easterns also. I am trying for a grand slam. My question is if you shoot an eastern in the counties below the line does the NWTF consider it an Osceola in your grand slam???   Thanks

If you are south of the line, and the bird looks like an eastern, I'm sure, at some point, there was an Osceola in the wood pile.

There is a huge gray area. I've always heard that south of HWY 50 was pure Osceola. All but 3 that I've killed were south of 50 and all had very little white in the wings. The 3 I've killed north of 50, looked exactly the same. May have something to do with the fact that they were only about 400 yards nort of 50, and probably have crossed it at some time or another.

In reality, what does it matter. I guess they have to have a line somewhere. If you kill it south of that line, call it an Osceola and be done with it.

[Ross R]

I am a little biased being at the bottom of the state but i have seen a bird that was shot up near panhandle that the wings black as midnight.  Here is saturday's bird from about the bottom of their range.

[Muzzy61]

I live right on the line. Hunt in a couple of county's north and a couple south. All the birds look the same mostly a hybrid. Only in the south part of Bradford county have I seen what appears to be a "true" Osceola.

[hoyt]

I think the old line was hwy 50 that runs from coast to coast east and west. Although I'm sure Osceolas are on the North side also. I wouldn't personally hunt too far North of 50 if I was looking for a pure blood Osceola. This one was in Greenswamp East WMA which is two WMA's South of hwy 50.

[g8rvet]

I was in a lease near the coast, a pretty far piece from the line. Several southern Florida turkey hunters have seen the fan from a bird I killed on that lease and asked when I got my Osceola.  I am sure there is some Osceola in those birds blood, but they are not considered Osceolas.  I already have killed 2 well south of the line, so it makes no difference to me, but had I not, I would not say I had an Osceola. 

That hanging bird by Hoyt is very similar looking to several birds from that lease.  They had a wee more white on the wing, but not much. 

[Rokhal07]

Really the main thing is that YOU consider it your grand slam. Dont let some sockload waste discourage you because they aren't interested in trying it. I couldn't begin to tell you what would 100% guarantee an osceola or eastern but I know its fun to hunt them in all of the different climates, environments and circumstances. Good luck.

[Old Gobbler]

I've seen gobblers come out of the same cypress head that had a wide variation of white in the primaries , some all black , some with thin white lines etc... And we are talking the most utterly southern realms well below lake O , but yes it's more common to see all black winged 13 pound gobblers with dagger spurs down here than what you see in the north part , but some of those  gobblers will have traits up more north florida l but just not as near frequent

There are several unique species and sub species of animals exclusive to the southern peninsula of Florida, the key deer ..ever see a 60-45 pound 8 point buck ? Lol ! , scrub jay , manatees , florida panthers , Everglades fox squirrel etc... The list goes on , the strong hold for pure Osceolas is Orlando and south .probably the most qualified person to ever address the subject was the late Lovett Williams , mind you he was Dr. Of biology and from Florida and a darn good turkey hunter that had examined thousands of specimens , in his book the line is much more south and it indicates a hybrid range , some years ago the powers that be moved the line well north of that , what inclined them to do that I have no idea , but the end result is that much of the out of state hunting pressure and hunters dispersed to a wider range , perhaps a good thing for the sub species , looking at it in hindsight it might have been the best thing to ever happen to south Florida turkeys

[RutnNStrutn]

Well here we go............
I have some ideas that may raise a few eyebrows, but I would say you would be very safe calling it an Osceola for the purpose of a Grand Slam if it was below that line.  I have had some interest in this topic for a while and have spoken with more than one biologist about it.  I even had one tell me that there was no DNA difference between an Osceola and an Eastern. 
I know there are certain characteristics that are attributed to the Osceola---Lower weight, more black barring on the wings, darker color, less vocal, etc.  Those characteristics alone would describe to a T the birds I grew up hunting in Southeastern, Louisiana.  It is my belief that those birds which inhabit the swampy regions along the gulf coast could technically meet the qualifications to be called Osceola.  Now, I am sure Florida and the money brought in from the monopoly they have on the term Osceola would offer some resistance to that theory. 
I can say that I have hunted Easterns in a good many states and more years than I would like to think have passed.  I would also say that even the birds(Easterns) I have hunted and killed in North Louisiana is a totally different bird from the ones I grew up with in Southeastern Louisiana.  I do believe it is probably more likely that the truest strains of Osceola would be confined to the South of that line, but it would take a lot of convincing for me to not believe that if you drew a line from the northern tip of Florida all the way west to the Mississippi River, that those birds would at least be a hybrid of what is called an Osceola and Eastern. 
Just my two cents.

Thank you!!!
I started out hunting in central FLA, well south of the mythical cut off line. Most of my gobblers have been Osceolas. But, most of my "Osceolas" look exactly like Easterns. Some look like what is supposed to be an Osceola. I also have a hunting lease in S. Carolina. Up there I've also killed birds that look like straight up Easterns, but also have killed birds that look more like Osceolas than a lot of the "Osceolas" I've killed.
Frankly, I agree with you. I think the entire southeast is filled with a whole bunch of hybrid turkeys, but some of them show the genetic traits of Osceolas.
Here's a pic of the last Osceola I killed. Looks like an Eastern to me. This was in southern Lake County, well south of the mythical dividing line.



And here's a S. Carolina Eastern that looks more like an Osceola than that Osceola I killed.



And here's a S. Carolina Eastern that looks like an Eastern.



And finally, here's a couple of Osceolas from Christmas, Florida, but they look like Osceolas. The first one is the first of my two Florida Registry gobblers. He had an 11-1/2" beard, twin 1-1/2" spurs and weighed 19 lb's.





So y'all tell me.
I wish the NWTF would admit that the SE US is full of hybrids, and only the extreme southern part of FLA has true Osceolas. Then I might be able to afford to hunt in my own state for a change.

[M Sharpe]

I killed a Rio in San Angelo that looked more like an Eastern than anyone else's, on the trip, did. San Angelo is far from the eastern range. Mine had a little buff coloring but not like the others. I've killed birds with dark wings right here in GA. That line is just a MONEY line.

The only difference between a brown bear and a grizzly bear is a 50 mile demarcation line. An Alaskan guide once wrote about seeing a grizzly bear turn into a brown bear and then back to a grizzly, several times. Simply because he was foraging back and forth across the line!