What do you consider to be a perfect all-around Lead pattern?

[Longshanks]

Yup, for me to fill out a 20" at close ranges I would have to shoot a modified choke. Filling out the 20" at 40" is what I have optimized with a number of lead loads and HTL as well but in order to do that the patterns up close have inevitably been tight. Shooting a good 20" inside 30yds doesn't even require a turkey choke. Lead patterns seem to deteriorate tremendously from 35 to 40yds with the exception of LB XR's This is where I make sure I have a killing pattern so I'm good to 40yds. (214 in a 10 @ 40)  Aim small miss small up close. Snatch on the trigger or pull the shot and your gonna miss. I agree on the LB patterns being almost too tight up close. My 20yd pattern is inside an 8" and 30yd inside a 10".   Inside 10yds is like shooting a slug gun. Need a Red dot for sure. Not sure I like hunting the LB's so much due to this. Patterns are awesome but it's easy to miss. I did it this year and heard stories everywhere I went of people missing inside 30yds.

[The Cohutta Strutter]

Let's also keep in mind that a light and clean breaking trigger in the 3 to 4pd range makes all the difference in the world on a precision shot at any range in pressure situations. Strutter...

[lowoctane]

Let's also keep in mind that a light and clean breaking trigger in the 3 to 4pd range makes all the difference in the world on a precision shot at any range in pressure situations. Strutter...

Yes sir!

[Longshanks]

Let's also keep in mind that a light and clean breaking trigger in the 3 to 4pd range makes all the difference in the world on a precision shot at any range in pressure situations. Strutter...

I have thought about putting in a Timney trigger in my 870. Stock trigger for rem 870 is supposed to be 3+ lbs.(more like 5-7) Be nice to lighten it up a bit but mainly to eliminate some creep. Trigger jobs have made a big difference on groups in my rifles @ 100yds but the difference is 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch at 100yds. Not sure of the difference that could make in a shotgun pattern when the pattern is 4"-8" inches across at close distance. Would be interesting to see but at 89.99 for the spring and sear from Timney I am hesitant about making the purchase.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

It's intereting that some threads die quickly, never to surface again.....and others simmer for a while, but come into their own at a later date.

The best, most even pattern I ever saw was 15" across, with no big holes.

[Longshanks]

It's intereting that some threads die quickly, never to surface again.....and others simmer for a while, but come into their own at a later date.

The best, most even pattern I ever saw was 15" across, with no big holes.

I thought it would be interesting to bring this one back since the standards for lead have changed dramatically since the LB XR's have come out. There are allot of guys out there turning 250-280 with lead LB 3.5 6's. The days of folks settling for turning 100+ in a 10 @ 40 seem to be history in just a years time. Amazing what technology can do and producing these high number LB patterns takes very little testing to produce great patterns.

[owlhoot]

Interesting, yes .  What could all this evolve into?
Will the Longbeard load change the standard?  Do we need the 3 1/2" gun and shell anymore?
Look at the 10 gauge now
Look at the 20 gauge now from the the HTL loads, very useful and popular.
A 20 gauge Longbeard load, which should be a no brainer from Winchester should boost the 20 even more.
2 3/4" shells in the 12 and 20 would get some old fixed choke and short chambered guns running good?
So many choke tubes, will that many styles and brands still be needed? If good patterns come easy?
People are talking alot about the 20 yard versus the 40 yard patterns. Good point for the double barrel with 2 chokes.
What is your thoughts?

[Longshanks]

 The Win LB XR's have certainly made me reconsider the 3" and 3.5" HTL loads for 12 guage. Less expensive and fantastic patterns at 40yds. The 20yd patterns are extremely tight, this being the down side to Win LB's. As far as 20 guage is concerned I will stick with the Hevi 6's and Fed HW 7's even if they do produce a 20 guage version of the LB's. I have no experience with 10 guage shotguns. Havent found any use for one over the years. It is definitely much easier to produce good patterns with these LB's out of a large number of aftermarket turkey chokes. The days of folks going through 4/5 turkey chokes to find something that works is not needed if Win LB's are the shell of choice. Shooting the more open barrel on O/U for closer shots has always been an option. Shooting a Browning Citori my dad used to switch the safety from Full to Mod if the turkey was coming inside 25yds. Shooting the Win LB's makes this switch or different shell combinations fairly necessary. Inside 20yds they are just tight no matter what choke it seems.  I have come up with some interesting shell combinations to hunt with out of the Citori. If nothing else the Win LB XR's have made shooting interesting and less expensive as of late.

[cluck]

I missed the first turkey I had the opportunity to kill this spring with my new 11-87 twenty with win. hw 7's at forty yards. Came back a day or two later and missed one at twenty yards with my 870 12 gauge with win. Long beard #6's and a rem. ventalator choke. Not a happy hunter. Went back the next day with super x red shell gray box number 6's shot with extra full rem. choke. Bingo!!! Killed the second gobbler that I missed the day before. He weighed 24 lbs, had a short 6 inch beard and one and 1/4 inch spurs. To make the best use of all this new stuff is not so cut and dried. Have to make a lot of adjustments. Not so simple anymore and its not over yet. There is a lot of wisdom in all these gentlemens post. I suggest that anybody take heed to the advice given by these outstanding turkey hunters. Young hunters beware!!       cluck

[trkehunr93]

I missed the first turkey I had the opportunity to kill this spring with my new 11-87 twenty with win. hw 7's at forty yards. Came back a day or two later and missed one at twenty yards with my 870 12 gauge with win. Long beard #6's and a rem. ventalator choke. Not a happy hunter. Went back the next day with super x red shell gray box number 6's shot with extra full rem. choke. Bingo!!! Killed the second gobbler that I missed the day before. He weighed 24 lbs, had a short 6 inch beard and one and 1/4 inch spurs. To make the best use of all this new stuff is not so cut and dried. Have to make a lot of adjustments. Not so simple anymore and its not over yet. There is a lot of wisdom in all these gentlemens post. I suggest that anybody take heed to the advice given by these outstanding turkey hunters. Young hunters beware!!       cluck

The way I see it is just because it's the latest and greatest doesn't mean it's necessarily the best tool for the job.  I did the Hevi thing for few seasons and yeah it killed turkeys but I still missed and began to feel like it was making me too "comfortable" to take a long shot.  So I sold it and went back to plain old lead loads to keep me in check.  Not knocking modern loads at all, just felt I was getting caught up in the frenzy and needed to simplify things.

[Longshanks]

Not a numbers guy, I look for evenness in the pattern in a 20-30" circle at 40.  I want to know what will that turkey run into if he turns left/right after I squeeze the trigger.  I look at 20 yards as well, again what does that 20" circle tell me if he moves when I shoot.  I always think about the what ifs, my Win. HV and XX 5's I shoot out of both of my guns give me between 95-100 in a 10 at 40, but I look beyond that and am confident they will kill at that range.  My 

Numbers are just a way to quantify and measure pattern density within a 10" circle so that if others are interested in trying the setup they have something tangible to compare their current patterns. This tool has helped me a great deal with my guns when OG members have shared their results. Turned my turkey guns into more effective patterning guns and kept me at times from wasting money on trying things that wouldn't be any better than what I have already. The patterns that I have shot that turn good 10" patterns turn the better 20" patterns at 40 yds as well with Pb and HTL. The only exception to this is the Win LB patterns which seem to primarily be within a 10" at 40. There is a whole lot of truth in the previous posts about super tight patterns increasing your chances of missing. Allot of these setups with HTL and Win LB's give very little margin for error. My focus has been to turn the best numbers/density I can in a 10" @ 40 with a good 15"-20" @ 40 as well. I have been able to achieve this with a couple of lead set ups and several HTL set ups. Long beards present more of a problem in that they turn the high numbers in a 10" @ 40 but the close patterns/ -20yds are super tight(even with a more open choke) and the majority of the pattern is in the 10" @ 40 with just a few scattered shot in the 15"-20".

[trkehunr93]

Not a numbers guy, I look for evenness in the pattern in a 20-30" circle at 40.  I want to know what will that turkey run into if he turns left/right after I squeeze the trigger.  I look at 20 yards as well, again what does that 20" circle tell me if he moves when I shoot.  I always think about the what ifs, my Win. HV and XX 5's I shoot out of both of my guns give me between 95-100 in a 10 at 40, but I look beyond that and am confident they will kill at that range.  My 

Numbers are just a way to quantify and measure pattern density within a 10" circle so that if others are interested in trying the setup they have something tangible to compare their current patterns. This tool has helped me a great deal with my guns when OG members have shared their results. Turned my turkey guns into more effective patterning guns and kept me at times from wasting money on trying things that wouldn't be any better than what I have already. The patterns that I have shot that turn good 10" patterns turn the better 20" patterns at 40 yds as well with Pb and HTL. The only exception to this is the Win LB patterns which seem to primarily be within a 10" at 40. There is a whole lot of truth in the previous posts about super tight patterns increasing your chances of missing. Allot of these setups with HTL and Win LB's give very little margin for error. My focus has been to turn the best numbers/density I can in a 10" @ 40 with a good 15"-20" @ 40 as well. I have been able to achieve this with a couple of lead set ups and several HTL set ups. Long beards present more of a problem in that they turn the high numbers in a 10" @ 40 but the close patterns/ -20yds are super tight(even with a more open choke) and the majority of the pattern is in the 10" @ 40 with just a few scattered shot in the 15"-20".

I shoot my guns at 20 and at 40 into a 10" circle as well, I was just making the point that I don't get caught up in the numbers and look at the overall pattern.  A lot of new hunters, I think, see the pattern posts about how many in a 10 someone got and think alright I need to get 250-300 in a 10 at 40 and I'm good.  Then they take the normal range shot at a gobbler of 20-25 yards and miss.  I just believe in keeping everything in perspective.  I do see the benefit of the numbers, just have chosen to not get caught up in them.  My 2 cents!

[MossRem]

I like 5 shot. No offense to others who like different sizes. You get more pellet energy than 6 shot with more shot than 4s. I like patterns at 40 yards or less. Like others on here, I like an even distribution of shot (what I call a "pretty pattern"). I want a shot spread where if Major Tom dips his head down for a tasty snake, bug, or blade of grass at the moment my shot goes off, my shot won't go flying over him.

[HFultzjr]

There is no perfect pattern with me but several very acceptable patterns. Using lead I want enough velocity with a minimum of recoil to have at least 1-1.5 pellets per square inch at a given distance out to 40 yards but one that certainly has the energy to penetrate bone at that distance.

Hey, if he's too far then I'll be back and enjoy another chase. You can make turkey preparation and equipment as simple or complicated as you wish. I wish you could make it as economical as well.

The area of a circle = (pi)(radius squared); radius = 1/2 the diameter. Therefore, this circle has an area of (pi)(52) = 79 square inches, to the justified number of significant digits. So..............

Area of a Circle = (Pi) (d^2)/4
= (Pi) (10^2)/4
= (Pi) 100/4
= 25 (Pi)
= (25)(3.1415927)
= 78.539816 sq. ins.

A ten inch circle means a circle of ten inches diameter. Thus there is approximately 79 sq in in a 10" circle............... If I can put 80 Pb pellets, evenly distributed; in a 10" circle I am a happy boy, the turkey however, er... not so much.

Huh!

Your reasoning does not bode well with the intellectually challenged Homo Sapiens!

I always thought Pi are round, not squared.

I've never seen a "round" apple pi, blueberry pi. etc.

Just kidding.....LOL