The Myth of Hunting Pressure

[shaman]

Sounds like an isolated property, with a very small sampling....

Can't say I agree with any of the premises, but certainly don't hunt any properties like the one mentioned....

Lots of data proving pressure....


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I would not call it isolated.  I'm in an area of mostly farms.  I can see other folks' lights.  The area of the county is also well hunted.  If you're out at the right time, you'll see trucks parked and guys in camo on the road.  The numbers I was discussing earlier are for the whole county, and turkey-wise we are the top producer in the NorthEast region of the state. 

I think this is true of a lot of places: half of the harvest for the season is on the first weekend.   Now if you're a hunting pressure advocate, that would indicate that there are a lot of hunters out, they all shoot their guns and it queers a lot of birds for the rest of the season.  On the other hand, what I see on my place is that there may be one of those ON events a week or three before season, the Opener on my ridge is kind of quiet, and then there is a huge burst of activity in the middle-to-the-end of the first week.  I usually hunt all that first week, and the gobblers can get pretty hot. From there on to the end of season it can be pretty dead, but there are always the odd flyers. 


ADD: I got to thinking about this on my way into work.

One thing that strikes me is that the advice I see from folks on how to hunt "pressured" turkeys, dramatically resembles the advice I'd give for hunting my "OFF" gobblers. That is: lay off the heavy calling and use woodsmanship.  That, to me, says a lot.  If "pressured" and "OFF" are handled in the same way, then they may be the same thing.  I guess the big question is whether human interaction has anything to do with it.  My contention is that it might not; turkeys are just normally ornery. 

The important thing here is that a hunter should never throw in the towel just because he thinks hunters have been there before him.

ADD: I'm in a meeting this AM, arrived early to get some email cleaned up.  While I was in there, the resident cardinal showed up.  He lives in the trees by the conference room. He's back for another year.  Every day he beats himself silly fighting with the reflection in the window. 

That makes me wonder:  exactly how much do birds ever learn about anything?

Just a thought.

[Ihuntoldschool]

There are a lot of good turkey hunters on this forum. To answer your questions, I could easily hunt one 200 acre piece and fill all of my tags without a problem, especially if the pressure/turkey population is like what you describe on it. I have done so multiple years.  I am no better than ALOT of the other members on this forum and I am not hear to brag. I cannot stress enough this forum has ALOT of REALLY GOOD turkey hunters. There are hunters here LEGALLY taking 8-10 birds a year in different states (maybe more?)  Do not underestimate the ability of some turkey hunters.

The spikes you are seeing on these certain days you talk about may be weather related. It is well documented that weather affects the number of hunters and hunter effort greatly. All gobblers do not magically say, I am only going to respond to those hen calls on these 3 or 4 days this year. That is ridiculous to believe that. Breeding begins in February in many areas and has been observed during the 4th of July weekend that I am personally aware of. Gobblers may respond to hen calls before or after this and any particular day in between. You can call birds up before the season opens(without a weapon obviously), any given day during the season, and even after the season goes out(again without a weapon). Everyone can make up their own mind about when to hunt or whether they want to hunt a bird after taking his temperature or go home and drink coffee. Just know that just because someone took his temperature and decided he wasn't "hot" enough and went to drink coffee, someone else may very well call him up and kill him. I don't think anyone is going to kill a bird every time they hunt. But I will say this there is a huge variation in the success rate among turkey hunters from the least successful to the most successful, as far as days hunted/birds harvested.  Turkey hunting is so much more than just harvesting a bird though, and that is not the only way to measure success by a long shot. You are WAY underestimating the ability of some turkey hunters.

[shaman]

The spikes you are seeing on these certain days you talk about may be weather related. It is well documented that weather affects the number of hunters and hunter effort greatly. All gobblers do not magically say, I am only going to respond to those hen calls on these 3 or 4 days this year. That is ridiculous to believe that.

It IS ridiculous. I'm not trying to say that, and I agree that weather would be the first thing I'd think of as a cause for the spikes. I do not think there is anything magical about it. Quite the contrary.  If you look at all the various factors at play, weather, hen receptivity, etc.  There are going to be a lot of days  on a given plot where it is going to be hard to call up a bird.  You say 3-4, I'm saying 2-3 days. You're probably a better caller than me.  The next guy on here is going to swear 4-5, and we're all right.  I'm just saying there are maybe a blessed few days in given season on a given plot  where  everything comes together and the average fellow has a really  good chance of calling in a gobbler. The rest of the time things are not quite as good.   What's to argue about?

I also don't think I underestimate the folks I'm talking to.  8-10 birds a year sounds about right, given the number of states and the number of days a lot of y'all hunt.  Now whether you can call up a bird on the 4th of July or the Ides of March is somewhat immaterial to this discussion. I've called one up on the Feast of Saint Sabas.  2-3 days of prime hunting out of an average  three week season in Kentucky is not all that bad.  I've read a lot of articles from a lot of distinguished turkey hunters who've had their butts kicked in Northern Kentucky, and a lot of them will talk about how the action only turned hot on the last day, or how a cold snap in the middle of their stay put the birds down for 3 days straight.  I also don't think the Trans-Bluegrass Region is all that different from other places. However, there was a time there where it seemed every outdoor writer had to write the obligatory 1200 words about being beat up on a early season Kentucky hunt. 

I am trying to put this all into some kind of perspective.  Somebody goes out to the local WMA, does a little shock calling and . . . dead silence.  To me, that doesn't sound like hunting pressure.  That sounds like just an OFF kind of day.  The same thing could happen on my property. It's going to require a different set of tactics, but there are birds to be had.  Tomorrow, they might be hot again.

I also agree that someone who tries to take a turkey's temperature and then goes into drink coffee when he's not satisfied is not getting the full picture.  A lot of days my hunting only picks up after 0900 or after 1000 or well into the afternoon, and it can be very localized. That is, it may be just one hillside in one pasture that has any action.  The rest can be completely silent, or it can be one bird on the whole property sometimes that will honor a call, even though I know for a fact that a dozen gobblers or more call it home.

I just think that a lot of what folks call "hunting pressure," is just the natural ornery nature of the bird showing itself. There have been a lot of otherwise perfect mornings I've gone in scratching my head. Then again, there have also been miserable days I would only wish on my ex-wife that have had birds practically crawling up my legs.

I write a simple essay meant to get folks to stop thinking about hunting pressure and start looking at the positive possibilities and the ceiling caves in on me!

[GobbleNut]

ADD: I got to thinking about this on my way into work.

One thing that strikes me is that the advice I see from folks on how to hunt "pressured" turkeys, dramatically resembles the advice I'd give for hunting my "OFF" gobblers. That is: lay off the heavy calling and use woodsmanship.  That, to me, says a lot.  If "pressured" and "OFF" are handled in the same way, then they may be the same thing.  I guess the big question is whether human interaction has anything to do with it.  My contention is that it might not; turkeys are just normally ornery. 

The important thing here is that a hunter should never throw in the towel just because he thinks hunters have been there before him.

ADD: I'm in a meeting this AM, arrived early to get some email cleaned up.  While I was in there, the resident cardinal showed up.  He lives in the trees by the conference room. He's back for another year.  Every day he beats himself silly fighting with the reflection in the window. 

That makes me wonder:  exactly how much do birds ever learn about anything?

Just a thought.

  Yeah,...you see stuff like that and it does indeed make you wonder.   One afternoon I was driving out from our cabin for a look around.  Reaching the main highway,...which is bordered on each side by a five foot high, five-strand barbed wire fence to keep the cattle off the road,...I looked over to one side and there was a hen turkey walking on the fenceline about thirty yards away. 

I stopped to watch for a couple of minutes as she wandered back and forth trying to get through the fence to cross the highway.  Of course, the longer I sat and watched her, the more nervous she got and soon was running frantically up and down the fencelne, back and forth, trying to get through. 

I finally yelled "you dumb-" and drove on down the road.  I was gone for a couple of hours and was on my way back to the cabin about an hour before dark.  Came to the same corner,...and guess what?  The same freakin' hen turkey was still walking up and down the fenceline trying to get through it! 

I drove past her, stopped about fifty yards away, got out of the truck, and starting walking towards her.  With every step I took towards her, the more panicked she got,...but would still not go through or over the fence.  She just ran back and forth,...going about twenty yards one way and then back the other.

I finally walked up to within a few feet of her,....she was going nuts by that time,...literally darting and flying along the fence,...but she still could not figure out what to do.  Right before I reached her, she flew up high enough to see that she could just fly over the fence,...which she did without any effort whatsoever, and flew across the road and up the hill on the other side.

I just turned and walked back to my truck, mumbling,.."you dumb-"....

Yes, there are definitely times when you have to wonder what's going on in that little pea-brain of theirs...

[GobbleNut]

I write a simple essay meant to get folks to stop thinking about hunting pressure and start looking at the positive possibilities and the ceiling caves in on me!

Been there, done that!  ...Don't want you to think that I was "piling on" you shaman.  I always enjoy your meanderings on these forums.  Please do not stop. 
I will say that, in this particular instance, I am not in agreement with you on your main premise.  I think hunting pressure very much influences success in turkey hunting,...given all other circumstances being equal.  As many have suggested here, there are an awful lot of circumstances that can come up that obviously cloud the issue, however.
The bottom line is that bringing up topics, concepts, and philosophies for discussion is what makes these forums entertaining and educational.  If we all agreed on everything all the time, heck,...what fun would all of this be?!   

[Ihuntoldschool]

I agree with you that "hunting pressure" can be falsely labeled as the reason for an unsuccessful hunt and it very well could be the gobblers being "onery'" as you put it. No doubt they can go cold for days at a time or be hot for days at a time. But another thing, just because one gobbler is "cold" does not mean they all will be. One gobbler may gobble his head off one morning and go totally silent the next morning. However, when he goes totally silent that day, there can be another gobbler gobbling his head off, and maybe he was silent the last two days. Each individual bird is different. And I agree with you they can go from hot to cold or cold to hot within  minutes, not just days.  So alot of what you are saying now, I agree with.

Now look at what you posted though, Hunting pressure is a myth.  NO.
There are only a few days each season where they can be taken by conventional methods. NO.  There may be a "peak" of only a few days, where they are easier to call up, I can agree with you there.     But your statements as you first posted them as absolutes are just not true.

[guesswho]

If we all agreed on everything all the time, heck,...what fun would all of this be?!   

The only way we will all ever agree is if everyone finally realizes that I'm right!

[jakesdad]

I would even argue that in some cases you dont catch turkeys on one of their "OFF" days but in an "OFF" hour.I've gone out on several occasions where i've roosted birds the night before just gobbling like their lives depended on it,only to find dead silence the next morning. The next thing you know about 9:00 the farmers cows start bellowin and low and behold for some reason known only to turkeys they light it up,and even answer calls.Ive pretty much given up the notion on trying to figure out what a turkeys thinkin cuz to be honest i'm not even sure he knows.Kind of like my 5 year old son,mad at the world throwin a fit over who knows what then somebody does or says something funny and hes laughing his butt off because he forgot he was mad.I chase em everyday I can,"GOOD" or "BAD" days.You never know when that moment will come when an old gobbler forgot why he wasn't playing fair and changes his mood.

As far as pressure goes,i'm sure negative interactions can turn a bird off to an extent,but how many of us have shot at a bird and missed only to reposition and call him back in and kill him? How many times have 2-3 birds come in and one get jellyheaded right there in front of his buddies only to have his buds come over and flog him when hes down.Not much more negative than an extremely loud blast and a dead buddy floppin in front of ya.I just take pressure for what its worth and adjust accordingly.Birds can and will die if you're willing to adjust and keep after em regardless of the situations presented at times.Just my 

[GobbleNut]

If we all agreed on everything all the time, heck,...what fun would all of this be?!   

The only way we will all ever agree is if everyone finally realizes that I'm right!

You are right once in a while,...on those rare occasions when you agree with me...

[mudhen]

By isolated I meant unique, not far away....


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[g8rvet]

Turkeys learn, but not in the sense that we do.  Ducks learn to migrate.  It is not instinct - proven time and time again.  Their parents teach them.  Birds raised in Florida do not migrate. 

What a turkey cannot do is say "that sounds funny, therefore I will stay away from that sound".  They may just be wary of calling that does not sound like a hen they have heard before.  There is no logic as we employ it.  If they were able to be logical, we would probably never kill them. They learn from experience, not from logic.   

Survival as a species depends more on breeding than it does on survival of the individual.  Without that very strong breeding instinct, the species dies off. It would be much safer for a gobbler to only breed hens he happens upon, while never gobbling.  But that would not be an efficient way for the species to propagate. He needs to gather the girls.  But he does not think about it, he just does it.  That is their weak point.  Also being a social bird in the fall (scatter and call).  That is why those tactics work.

I too believe in pressure. I also believe it is a crutch for many of us that are not as skilled.  I have a few friends that are turkey killers.  They hunt harder, smarter and think like a turkey.  And they kill turkeys where others strike out. 

I also agree that some birds are OFF sometimes. I hunt public and a 400 acre farm and there are some days the birds are just not receptive to calling.  I get a lot more satisfaction out of out thinking a bird and being where he intends to be and calling him in the last few yards to kill him.  You can call that ambushing, but I call that hunting.  Of course, the "gobble a ton and fly down off the limb" hunts are fun, but when I tagged out one year with a bird that never said a word all season (at least when I was there), but I knew he was there because of his tracks and his strut marks.  I called him in after noon (all day hunting on private) by being more stubborn than he was.  I was more proud of that bird than the one I called in gobbling earlier in the year. 

Turkeys are wary, random and frustrating as all get out and I am counting the days until the season opens. 

[chatterbox]

If we all agreed on everything all the time, heck,...what fun would all of this be?!   

The only way we will all ever agree is if everyone finally realizes that I'm right!

Ronnie, didn't you make a mistake once when you thought you were wrong?

[shaman]

By isolated I meant unique, not far away....


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I don't think my situation is all that unique either.  There are a lot of us out there that only hunt one property, and I don't think my property is all that unique from others-- not in the Trans-Bluegrass and not in the Ohio Valley.

I do think my hunting experiences in Mississippi were considerably different. I think the weather is  much more favorable on a lot more days down south.  It took a lot of years for me to sort out the differences.  Most places to in the deep south don't get "Hail" as a forecast for the day. Our little patch of heaven will on occasion, and indeed for hours on end there will be fits and spurts of small ice balls falling from the sky.  You can usually figure that to be an "OFF" kind of day.  Ditto for the 40 degree temperature drops and 30 mph winds we sometimes get Opening Week.   On the other hand, I've been in bathing trunks, camped out in front of the air conditioner Opening Week.

I hunted Southern KY for a number of years, about 200 miles south of where I am, and it was all public ground  and it was all  kind of "OFF" .  Back when 600 feet of altitude difference on a morning hunt didn't mean much to me, and my goal was to find gobblers who'd never been called to.  I found them all right.  However, I realized no matter how motivated the gobbler was, it was hard to close the deal with a 50 foot cliff in the way.   I also found out virgin gobblers can be just as recalcitrant as war veterans.

And I've been all over Southern Ohio, where I learned to recognize    what it's like to get gobblers shot out from under me, and what it's like to be hunted by another hunter.  Crowded? Yes, Pressure? Yes, but somebody was still was killing turkeys. You could hear shotguns going off every morning.

My point is that I just don't see a whole lot of difference between what folks call "hunting pressure" and the overall ups and downs of turkeys. The difference becomes even less meaningful when the strategy for both is basically the same.   If you'd asked me a decade ago, I would have told you my turkeys were all call-shy, deke-shy, shell-shocked and suffering from PTSD. I would have ascribed all manner of human-induced terror.  Nowadays, I just see them as turkeys.

[GobbleNut]

This is great fodder for keeping the mind pre-occupied and the doldrums at bay for those of us that are still a few weeks away from actually getting to go hunting for turkeys.  My theory is,..."if you can't go turkey hunting, talk about turkey hunting". 

Not wanting to get into my usual lengthy, long-winded diatribe, I will try to be brief,...as much as it pains me to do so.  Hence, I submit the following formula regarding the subject at hand.  Feel free to dissect it and tear it apart as one sees fit.

Hunting Pressure = more people in turkey woods "impersonating turkeys" = more encounters by turkeys with people "impersonating" them = more negative reinforcement to turkeys that they should avoid said impersonators = turkeys associating danger with getting too close to impersonators = turkeys deciding that unless they want to be converted to turkey nuggets that perhaps they should avoid all impersonations of turkeys = gobblers never approaching any turkey impersonation, accompanied by an attitude of,..."if you want some of this, you are going to have to come over here to me so I can see that you are a real turkey".

[shaman]

You know, something strikes me in all this.  Again, I'm still questioning hunting pressure as a concept. 

However, it dawns on me that half of all turkeys harvested in a given season are taken on Opening Weekend.  That's at least true in the OH, IN, and KY. Your states may be different, but I don't monitor those states' statistics.  Opening Weekend is when EVERYBODY's out, or so it seems. It could just be that what we call hunting pressure is when all the truly gullible birds get nailed.  By the time Monday comes around, what's left are the ones that were too ornery to come to a call.

Fishing has long had a similar argument.  The old timers used to be able to drag a cut-off silver teaspoon through the water and fill the boat with bigguns.  Nowadays you have to be pretty shrewd to get a 10th of that kind of haul.  The idea is that sportsmen have selected all the stupid ones and gotten them out of the gene pool. What's left are wary and the wariness grows over time.  I don't mean to argue the validity of the argument.  I don't know.  However, I would speculate that something similar happens with turkey.

It would certainly be the case that on heavily hunted property, whether learning is main driver or not, after the Opener, there are going to be much fewer gobblers about.