Long Spurs, are they rarer than we think?

[davisd9]

For many years I have been under the belief that you determine a turkeys age by the length of their spurs.  This is what I have been told for a long time and saw no fault in the logic.  Well over the past few years situations have occurred that have made me start doubting this aging system.  We all believe, as do I, that spur determines a trophy gobbler, but is that status of trophy rarer than we give it credit? 

I have personally come to the opinion that their is more to long spurs than just age, but that age is one factor in turkeys with longer spurs.  I believe that age, genetics, nutrition, and environment all play part in the length of a gobblers spurs. 

One example that helped change my opinion of this issue was the bird that WNY Bowhunter killed a few seasons ago. It was a banded gobbler that was released three years before he killed it as a mature bird.  After receiving all his information from those that banded the bird it is believed that the bird was at least 8 yrs old, pretty amazing to me with the harsh winters of New York. Under my belief that age determines spur length I would have thought the bird would have at least 1.5" spurs, but the one the one that was still intact was just 1.25", the other was broken off from fighting and all.   (http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,25642.msg275208.html#msg275208)

The other example I will use is a friend of mine killed a bird in an area where he had been hunting a bird for 2 prior years.  This bird had a certain routine and acted the same each time he hunted him.  When he finally killed the bird in this area and the bird had only 13/16" Ivory spurs.  By spur length that is a two year old bird but if you look at the picture the bird does not look like a two your old, or at least not to me in my humble opinion.  This "2" year old acted the exact way as the previous bird that had not been killed to the hunters knowledge.  I think it was the same bird and just did not have the genetics or nutrition to produce longer spurs even though he was older.

"Two" year old in my example:


I see it just like I do deer, some are just incline through nature and environment to have longer spurs or bigger antlers.  That makes those that do have those long spurs we crave a rarer trophy than we give them credit for. 

I think that as far as aging a turkey the best we can do is say it is a Jake, a two year old by the amber of the beard, or a three year old or better because of no amber in the beard.  Maybe I am wrong, but through experience this is what I currently believe.  I would love to hear what the "turkey experts" have to say on the subject, their belief and why.  Please give me more than that is what I was always told.

[WNY Bowhunter]

One example that helped change my opinion of this issue was the bird that WNY Bowhunter killed a few seasons ago. It was a banded gobbler that was released three years before he killed it as a mature bird.  After receiving all his information from those that banded the bird it is believed that the bird was at least 8 yrs old, pretty amazing to me with the harsh winters of New York. Under my belief that age determines spur length I would have thought the bird would have at least 1.5" spurs, but the one the one that was still intact was just 1.25", the other was broken off from fighting and all.   (http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,25642.msg275208.html#msg275208)

Just to clarify a bit...my gobbler was banded as an adult with 1 3/16" spurs in Feb. 2007 and I killed him 5 years later in May 2012.

[WNY Bowhunter]

I have had my hands on many dozens of dead NY gobblers over the years and I have only ever seen one in person with over an inch and a half spurs (one of my uncles killed it in 2010). I would venture to guess that this bird was 6 or 7 years old...

1.5" & 1 9/16:

[Blong]

Genetics. Fla and Ga kill way more large Spurs than all the other states. I have probably put my hands on 700-800 gobblers killed by my friends and acquaintances over the last 3 decades and only 3 have had 1.5" spurs.

[GobbleNut]

I think genetics plays the main role in whether of not a particular bird will ever have long spurs, no matter what his age. I agree that the other factors you mention,...nutrition and environment,...may play a role to some degree, but if a gobbler does not have the genes for long spurs, he will never grow them, no matter how long he lives.

Like you, I have seen gobblers that I was certain were ancient birds that had 1" spurs.  On my home turf, where I have looked over hundreds of spurs, I am fairly confident I can tell two-year-olds and three-year-olds pretty consistently, but after that, it is purely a function of genetics and "guesswork". 

[WNY Bowhunter]

Also, a friend of mine's daughter killed a two year old in 2008 (banded as a jake in 2007) that had 1 1/8" spurs. I would typically presume spurs of this length to be a three year old.

[fountain2]

ive killed my share in s ga and only held one true pair of 1.5" spurs.  my wife killed him


ive heard of many more and hear of some yearly, but ive never killed any.  1 7/16 is the closest ive came


ive killed several in the 1.25 range and one 1 3/8....the 1.5"s just aren't that common I don't think..of the osceolas I killed haven't gotten one there yet either. 

[fountain2]

^crappy pics of those spurs on both birds...they look short.  ive got better ones on my phone, but o well.  wifes bird was true 1.5 and 1 7/16 and my bow bird was 1 7/16 and 1 3/8...both being mounted for sure!

[Rio Fan]

I hunt in Washington and Idaho.  My best bird had 1 3/8 inch spurs, it was an Eastern I killed in Idaho towards Dworshak Reservoir.  I've killed a couple others (Merriams/Rios) with 1 1/4 inch spurs.  I imagine genetics play a big part in spur length but also the type of terrain the birds live in can wear their spurs down.

[BABS9]

I killed a bird here in WNY last season with 1.5" spurs. Probably about 4 years old.

[busta biggun]

I agree with the logic that 1.5 inch spurs are very rare and genetics and location do come into play. I disagree with the concept of GA or any other state having more 1.5 inch spur turkeys than any others. I hunt mostly in KS and MO and have shot 3 turkey that had 1.5 inch spurs and my friend has shot two. That is out of probably 150 birds I have personally seen get killed. 5 out of 150 is pretty good.I also think hunting pressure has a lot to do with it. We shot two birds in one year that were that that long. Both in a spot where hunting was not allowed for multiple years prior. They don't get long spurs if they get shot in year two so that makes sense to me. Lastly if there is rocky terrain they will get broken off more often or rubbed down.

[Gobble!]

I believe its about genetics.

[Tail Feathers]

I think spur length isn't a great method of aging a tom.  I read the snood may be a more reliable indicator of age but I've never measured the snood on one I've killed.

[tomstopper]

I believe its about genetics.

^^^This

[Mike Honcho]

Very interesting topic.   I was hunting in Kansas about 3 years ago and called in two gobblers (Easterns) from about 300 yds away...even from a distance I could see one was HUGE...he looked half again as big as his buddy. 

After I shot the big one I rushed over anxiously thinking he had to have huge spurs...I was disappointed to find out both spurs were like 7/8" .   I think he had to be at least a three year old bird and weighed well over 26 lbs by a UPS scale.