my dad loves the Hevi 5's for knockdown power...based on today's results he's in great shape pattern wise too. He got 168 and 181 in 10" with the 3.5" 2.25oz Hevi 13 #5 and his Indian Creek .665 Black Diamond Strike tube. Once we got his red dot sighted in his set up was taking care of business. Interestingly enough we were shooting some low brass #5's just getting his POI/POA ready and they ended up shooting much different than the turkey loads. The Longbeard XR 4's, Lead Federal #4's and Hevi 13 5's shot to about the same POI but with the low brass Kent FastLead we started with we were off to the left by about 6" and 3" high at 40 yards when we switched to the turkey loads...simply points again to the fact that you can't make assumptions when getting set up. He could have missed or wounded his turkeys at 35 to 40 yards had we not checked again...I'd say it was worth the extra 5.00 per shell to make sure! Enjoy.