Called Indian Creek

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Well I think most of us here can agree that they have firsthand seen discrepencies on the way the Hevi-13 loads are shooting and that even goes for the exact same box and lot number for me.  Heck I can't even get the dang 6's to hardly shoot worth a hoot out of both of my guns and chokes.  I shot the 870 the last time I shot with the exact same box and lot of the Hevi-13 1.75oz # 6 loads that I got a whopping 209 shot total from the time before in a 10" with the 870 and the .655 Ventilator choke, and I shot it in 5 degree warmer weather and shot 1 shell and it only did 165.  That's another big difference.  

[OLE RASPY]

I AM READY TO GO TURKEY HUNTING

[drum817]

Drum,

Thank You for making my point! This is an post about an I.C. choke pattern and phone call. When "The Guy" at I.C. dared to question the Hevi Shot loads or batch, several people implied that it was an excuse(piss poor) and so on. Even people that should know better had plenty to throw in the mix.

I agree 100% that the issue with poor patterns with an indian creek and hevi-shot more than likely lies with hevi-shot. We know that an IC is capable of putting up some great numbers with the 7's. Your patterns are a good example.

Clint

Rule number 1 in business..... Never point blame or imply blame on another unless you have proof that your business or product is first not at fault.  Basic business 101.  My point being is that allot of people jumped the gun and still are jumping the gun without first having all the hard facts sitting in front of their face. 

No problem on my part....like I said....IF someone will send me a Hevi-13 3.5" #7 from this years lot I will cut it open and compare it to one that I have from last years lot and check for inconsistencies....If i'm wrong I'll GLADLY admit it....I hope that E M didn't mess with the load.

[talltines]

Some clarification to get things straight.   I did call Indian Creek and the guy I spoke to was very nice and explained to me that they (IC) had several people calling them complaining this year about the Hevi 13 #7 load in particular not shooting consistant patterns.  Since he had talked to several people with this problem he made the conclusion that it must be the ammo.  Also the patterns I was getting were not what I had hoped for but still were respectable enough to kill a turkey.  200 hits in a 10 inch at 40 is better than what I was shooting before.   I have to admit though it is a little frustrating to spend the money for a shell thats supposed to produce and then it doesnt (the way you want it to).  Any way I have not come to any conclusion yet on whether my problem is the shells or just that my gun does not like that particular load and choke combination.  I do however plan to shoot the Winchesters soon and will post my results.  Thanks for all the opinions and assistance.

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's.  Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?

I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year.  It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10".  That's like two Lead patterns at once.  Super effective.  We're spoiled.

[shootumindaface]

The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's.  Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?

I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year.  It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10".  That's like two Lead patterns at once.  Super effective.  We're spoiled.

You are exactly right.. I have laughed for the past year at the folks only getting 240-275 and wanting 300.. I have been on these forums along time and not to long ago you had to actually monkey with your gun and buy multiple chokes to break 200.. Now all of a sudden 200 is not good enough..

But with this being said the constant fiddling with loads by EM is un acceptable.. This is not the first time they have displayed similar actions.. We had old white, than they came out with the Red and green loads which worked for some and the bulk it did not.. Eventually they had to go to the bronze loads with a heavier payload to equal the performance of Old White..

The Hevi 13 6s in the 20 gauge were putting up 150s from the pre 07 versions.. Now we had to go down to a mixture of 7-8s to get the same performance we were getting out of 6s 7 years ago..

[bird]

The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's.  Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?

I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year.  It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10".  That's like two Lead patterns at once.  Super effective.  We're spoiled.

[mohunter]

JUST SHOOT NITRO'S

[boyhowdy]

The #7's are the same price as the #6's, and they almost always outshoot the #6's.  Aren't people still getting their money's worth, in a way?

I do agree that it should be the same load from year to year.  It's just tough to hear people complain bitterly about only getting 200 in 10".  That's like two Lead patterns at once.  Super effective.  We're spoiled.

For Traditional turkey hunting 150-170 in a ten is borderline too tight to hunt with IMO -- my SBEII went 220 in a 10 off a clean bore with Mag Blends, and I'm leaving it dirty to open it up, it is now probably averaging around 170 and thats as tight as I want it. People have gone off the deep end with this stuff - as long as you're sitting against the perfect tree with a perfect rest everythings good, but I've had to shoot outta some pretty akward positions before and a little margin for error is a good thing. A hobby with this patterning stuff is one thing, but hunting is another, I hope new folks reading this stuff realize that

[S.C.C]

[/quote]

For Traditional turkey hunting 150-170 in a ten is borderline too tight to hunt with IMO -- my SBEII went 220 in a 10 off a clean bore with Mag Blends, and I'm leaving it dirty to open it up, it is now probably averaging around 170 and thats as tight as I want it. People have gone off the deep end with this stuff - as long as you're sitting against the perfect tree with a perfect rest everythings good, but I've had to shoot outta some pretty akward positions before and a little margin for error is a good thing. A hobby with this patterning stuff is one thing, but hunting is another, I hope new folks reading this stuff realize that
[/quote]
Well said!!

[drum817]

I think most understand that 160-180 is plenty good for hunting. That being said I still would say that the shells that were shooting 300+ patterns were the higher performing shells.  I doubt EM was getting lots of calls and emails last year complaining about the patterns being too tight.  I imagine some how money is a factor and they wanted to make more so they changed something in order to do so.  I am also upset because I sang the praises for these shells for being so good and recommended them to everyone who would listen.  It was easy for any hunter to take his plain Jane shotgun and turn it into a 50 yard killer without testing 10 chokes and shooting a case of shells to do so.  Bottom line is anytime a product drops in performance, doesn't meet expectations, and cost the same people are gonna be ticked.

[boyhowdy]

I think most understand that 160-180 is plenty good for hunting. That being said I still would say that the shells that were shooting 300+ patterns were the higher performing shells.  I doubt EM was getting lots of calls and emails last year complaining about the patterns being too tight.  I imagine some how money is a factor and they wanted to make more so they changed something in order to do so.  I am also upset because I sang the praises for these shells for being so good and recommended them to everyone who would listen.  It was easy for any hunter to take his plain Jane shotgun and turn it into a 50 yard killer without testing 10 chokes and shooting a case of shells to do so.  Bottom line is anytime a product drops in performance, doesn't meet expectations, and cost the same people are gonna be ticked.

you have a point and are 100% correct - Years ago I used to get rid of guns that would not shoot Winchester #4's  well, now you can go buy a box of HTL, shoot to check POI and for all intents and purposes you are ready to hunt.

[SKFOOTER]

Like I posted last night---I think they initiated the $5 a box up to a $20 total rebate this year because they knew they messed up and tinkered with the #7 loads.   They figured this would help compensate for their error instead of just admitting it.

[Gobble!]

Like I posted last night---I think they initiated the $5 a box up to a $20 total rebate this year because they knew they messed up and tinkered with the #7 loads.   They figured this would help compensate for their error instead of just admitting it.

they offered the rabate last year as well. Hopefully I will have pattern results Saturday or Sunday comparing the new shells vs last years

[bird]

Sounds like to me that a bunch of ya need your turkey season to begin.  A little cabin fever is starting to get to some of ya.