Who has done the math??

[Palmetto Turk]

Alright who has figured out the voodoo calculation for the energy delivered by some of these 20 gauge loads? I like to see the numbers. I've read about the weight of TSS loads vs lead and understand you can pack ALOT of 8 or 9 pellets in a 3" shell and understand the tight patterns delivered on target. I've read TSS 9 is equivalent to shooting 4s. Is this a wild  guess or backed up by numbers? And I kind of get it. But I know some of you engineers out there have run these numbers. I'm just thinking....Lead 4s weigh whatever vs Fed Heavyweight vs TSS 9s weigh whatever. So you can figure total density/oz of shot. You can count or find out how many pellets in each type shell so you can even figure density per pellet if you wanted. If you can assume, which is a big IF a 75 or 80% pattern inside the 10" ring, or whatever pattern assumption, from each load, and you know fps of the load, I'm thinking there's an energy delivered number of each load on target.  THIS would definitively show effectiveness of each load given it's characteristics and even give an apples to apples comparison of a 12 gauge 4s vs 20 ga 7s for example.  Which one of you math nuts has figured this out or has the ballistics program to do it? It would be interesting to compare shells across the gauges.  Or are we all just saying, this TSS and heavyshot stuff weighs more than lead and we can cram alot of 7-9 shot in a shell and it groups really well, so that's what we're using.....

[turkey_slayer]

Tss to lead is roughly 5 sizes. Hevi to lead is roughly 2 sizes. Hw15 to lead is roughly 3 sizes. Buy the kpy ballistic program and it will do the numbers

[Palmetto Turk]

Yes, this much I understand. Have shot 28ga exclusively for years except at ducks and turkeys. I know someone has a calculation that allows you to compare across shot size and guage size that shows energy delivered on target be it in ft/lbs, degrees Kelvin, total badassery or whatever scale.

[turkey_slayer]

Yes, this much I understand. Have shot 28ga exclusively for years except at ducks and turkeys. I know someone has a calculation that allows you to compare across shot size and guage size that shows energy delivered on target be it in ft/lbs, degrees Kelvin, total badassery or whatever scale.

Gauge size doesn't matter. A pellet that is the same size, fired at the same velocity has the same energy whether fired out of 410 or 10ga. The bigger gauge just allows bigger payload.  The kpy program will tell you what you want to know at whatever yardage. Just need to input velocity, shot density, ect and it will calculate ballistic gelatin penetration for that range

[R AJ]

Turkey Slayer is right so you need to be concerned with pattern density. A 28 gauge loaded with 6s or 7.5s at the same velocity as your 12 gauge will penetrate just as deep as the 12 at the same distance.

Being hit with 3/4 oz. of shot vs. 2 ozs. is a factor but if on target will do the job.

Many are going crazy over the TSS in 28 and 410 gauges on another forum. Lead at 30 is still dead at 30.
Why not enjoy the show?

[surehuntsalot]

Turkey Slayer is right so you need to be concerned with pattern density. A 28 gauge loaded with 6s or 7.5s at the same velocity as your 12 gauge will penetrate just as deep as the 12 at the same distance.

Being hit with 3/4 oz. of shot vs. 2 ozs. is a factor but if on target will do the job.

Many are going crazy over the TSS in 28 and 410 gauges on another forum. Lead at 30 is still dead at 30.
Why not enjoy the show?

[BandedSpur]

Penetration for various shot materials and sizes at 40 yds @ 1100 fps @ 1000' elev @ 70 degrees/pellets per oz
Pb 4  2.1/ 135
    5  1.8/173
    6  1.5/225
HS 5  2.1/159
     6  1.8/206
     7  1.5/274
HW 6  2.7/165
     7  2.3/220
TSS 8  2.6/251
      9  2.1/358

So TSS 9s have the same penetration as Pb 4s. A 3.5" 2.25 oz load of Pb 4s contains 304 pellets. A typical 1.625 oz 20 ga load of TSS 9s contains 582 pellets. It is relatively easy to get 50% of the total pellet count in the 10 with TSS. Prior to the introduction of Winch LBs, 33%/10 was considered very good pattern performance from Pb. With the LBs, 50% is now also possible with Pb.

Now compare a 3" 20 ga load of Pb 4s to a 20 ga load of TSS 9s
Pb 4s 10" numbers @ 40 yds (135/oz x 1.25 oz x 33% = 56)
TSS 9s 10" numbers @ 40 yds (358/oz x 1.625 oz x 50% = 291)
NO CONTEST

[Palmetto Turk]

Now THAT'S what I've been looking for BS. THANK YOU. maybe I'm still too new at this but what are HS shells?

[Palmetto Turk]

Here is another link from a forum I found while searching for the kpy program info. It's great info and explanation for those figuring this stuff out but trying to understand how 7 8 or 9 shot will hit as hard as lead 4s or 5s. I know the 20 I just built shoots better than the 12 I've killed many many birds with. I'm not a 50-60 yard shot believer. Like archery closing the range is the whole game. But this has been very interesting to me.
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=801088

[owlhoot]

Hevi-Shot = hs , dont know 12 or 13 density for his formula.

[Palmetto Turk]

Yep! Hello!!? So is HW heavyweight I'm assuming? And that's different from heavy shot? Is HW the 20 ga federal load? Just got up to speed with all this since the new year. Tks.

[Dtrkyman]

Hw is Heavyweight, it is more dense than hevi shot, 12 0r 13 for hevi and 15 for heavyweight as far as density, tss I believe is 18

[Tom Foolery]

Here is another link from a forum I found while searching for the kpy program info. It's great info and explanation for those figuring this stuff out but trying to understand how 7 8 or 9 shot will hit as hard as lead 4s or 5s. I know the 20 I just built shoots better than the 12 I've killed many many birds with. I'm not a 50-60 yard shot believer. Like archery closing the range is the whole game. But this has been very interesting to me.
http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/showthread.php?t=801088

Because it's about the weight and hardness of a projectile not size/diameter.


If you throw a basketball as hard as you can at someone's face and then you turn around and throw a baseball as hard as you can at someone's face which one "hits harder"? 

[BandedSpur]

Now THAT'S what I've been looking for BS. THANK YOU. maybe I'm still too new at this but what are HS shells?

Yes, HS is Hevi-shot, all of which has a density of 12 gm/cc, despite the trade name of Hevi13
HW is 15 gm/cc, an example of which is loaded by Federal