So Winchester did it w/ the Longbeards...Now What?

[mightyjoeyoung]

Winchester has apparently reinvented the wheel with the new Longbeard XR lead loads.  Patterns are insane to say the least with lead shot, putting up numbers and patterns, never before seen, let alone hear of in modern turkey hunting history.  Now my question.  Why not, and when will the HTL load manufacturers start doing this with HTL shot loads?  what will the results be?  Could we be looking at patterns with the larger (5,s and 4's) HTL shot that produce patterns at insane ranges that were produced with almost boring regularity at 40 +/- yards today?  I see a copy cat out there somewhere that's going to give the weekend warriors the ability, if not the ethicallity to take birds with normal, old HTL shot to ranges the vast majority of the members on this site consider, and this guy to a large extent, for lack of a better term, unsporting.  Can anyone else see that?

[d.winsor]

That might be but Winchester probably has a patent on the Long Beard XR shell design.  Might be 10 years before anybody can copy cat, but I don't know just guessing, Winchester probably already has their sights set on HTL, no telling what that will cost.  Many people are hoping for 20 gauge next year.  Right now I think Winchester competitors are running trying to play catch up.  They better hurry.

[BowBendr]

Yeah, there probably is some form of patent being secured for the LBXR design. About the only way another shell company could try to compete would be with a new and improved wad design like federal did with the FC.
HeviShot has considerable market share in the htl shotshell industry, if they could get their act together in relation to their wad changing/swapping hi-jinks from year to year and come out with a wad design that wasn't so finicky and held the shot together longer like the Fed FC, they might have a new winner. That, and make Hevi 13 truly be 13 g/cc.

[jdavenp3]

Think Winchester could add a htl load into the resin? They could control the lead market and then expand into the htl. Have the lead at the same low price point and a "premium" load at a higher price point. Get both ends of the market. Start adding blended loads. I would be trying to maximize as much of the hype around what they have built with these shells as possible.

With that said, I dont know if Winchester even deals in htl shot. Have they used it before?

[NC_10]

This is exactly what i was thinking it would be an awesome combination.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jdavenp3]

I mean in my mind that would be the logical step. If they have a patent, which Im sure they do, then try and corner the market at both ends of the spectrum for as long as possible.

Throw in mag blends and #7 loads. Those that want the down range penetration would have something to grab on to and the ones that want an efficient lead load that performs very well would have the cheaper alternative.

Winchester...SIGN ME UP haha.

[darn2ten]

My question is why? I mean the whole point of the Long Beard is to have a serious alternative to HTL at a affordable cost. HTL already patterns good to extended ranges, and by that i mean past 40. One of the main problems with lead before the LB's past 40 has been pattern density. I mean quite a few people until recently have struggled to break 100 @ 40 with #5's. Now your seeing 5's go 180-200 on a regular basis, which will still have enough pattern density and energy to kill any turkey walking at 50 yds. Now if you gave a HTL load of 5 or 6's the same resin lok technology and it had the same effect you might be looking at something with enough pattern density and energy to reliably kill at 70 yds. I mean at that kind of range you might as well pick up a rifle where it's legal. To me it has more to do with the sport and game that just the killing. I hope we never see factory loads like that.

[jdavenp3]

I was talking from a purely marketing/business standpoint. I limit myself to 40 yards. If they aren't closer than that then I have not done my job.

However, Winchester is a business. From a business perspective they should have something to compete with the other higher density shells. Whether people believe this or not, some people will go into a store and see a 5 shell box of htl that is $30-35 and a 10 shell box of LB @ $25 and automatically go to the higher priced item. OG comprises a small minority of the hunting community. A vast majority has the "you get what you pay for" mindset and automatically assumes that since the htl are double the price that they are superior.

Winchester would be wise to corner that side of the market. Also, there are people who just vehemently will not use lead shot. Winchester would be wise to take advantage of those consumers as well.

There are a world of things that Winchester could market for the htl shells other than killing distance. Lower recoil/same penetration, smaller shot with same penetration, 20ga shells with resin tech to optimize pattern/penetration, Mag Blends, etc. etc. They dont have to say well the LB lead is good at X yardage and htl is a further yardage shell.

Some people want the "best" and most expensive. This would allow them to do so.

[jdavenp3]

Also, I have no stake in this whether they do or not. Just adding my opinion on what could be potential for the resin tech and marketing for it. Just playing a little Devil's Advocate...

[CASH]

Bubba Rays Super Duper Nuclear Gobbler Bomb is next

[chatterbox]

Bubba Rays Super Duper Nuclear Gobbler Bomb is next

Will Walmart stock them, and will we be able to get a coupon for a free squeeling hen?

[owlhoot]

Is that from ACME       BEEP !    BEEP !

[CASH]

Bubba Rays Super Duper Nuclear Gobbler Bomb is next

Will Walmart stock them?

Probably. Except for the ones closest to us. Lol

[chatterbox]

Is that from ACME       BEEP !    BEEP !

Roadrunner, whatcha gonna do?

[Mike Honcho]

I haven't looked for this on my Longbeard XR boxes but it is normal business practice for a company to mark the product as "Patent Pending" if they are seeking patent protection.  Then once a product receives a Patent the company must put the US Patent number on the product package in order to defend the patent.

I'm not a Patent attorney so don't take this as 100% gospel....I do work with patents and have my name on 3 with another pending.

Honcho