A Question About Shells

[Neill_Prater]

I bought a box of Longbeards a couple of weeks ago, but haven't had the opportunity to pattern them due to our continued lousy weather. I'm guessing they'll do great with at least one of my chokes considering the awesome patterns some of you have posted.

All that aside, the marketing hype put out by Winchester is similar to that they used in advertising the Xtended's HTL loads, basically that the near perfect roundness of the individual pellets causes them to fly truer and pattern tighter. I shot the Xtended's for years, and they performed well, so no complaints from me there.

However, if that is true, then would someone please explain to me how Hevishot shells, without a single projectile anything close to perfect roundness, can pattern so well? 

[guesswho]

Just a guess but I would thing weight.  I would think with two objects of the same size a heavier object would fly truer through wind resistance than a lighter object.

[turkey_slayer]

Just a guess but I would thing weight.  I would think with two objects of the same size a heavier object would fly truer through wind resistance than a lighter object.

Yep. Throw a golf ball then throw a ping pong ball and see which one flies the straightest and furthest

[L.F. Cox]

Just a guess but I would thing weight.  I would think with two objects of the same size a heavier object would fly truer through wind resistance than a lighter object.

Nothing to do with weight....the weight difference between lead. Hevi Shot or TSS is so little it's negligible between individual pellets of equal size.

I weighed a Win.Extended #4 pellet and a copper plated lead #4 pellet and believe it or not the lead was heavier....when struck with a hammer the Extended Range pellet is harder to deform.

When Hevi Shot first came out it blew all previous shotgun pattern theories out the window.

Before Hevi Shot all theory was based on keeping the pellet round and it would fly straighter (do away with the fliers)....the first Hevi Shot that came out was anything but round yet it patterned good....because it was hard enough to not be deformed during it trip down the barrel.

In reality it should have been named Harder Shot...

The move towards smaller shot is primarily for hole counters.

[appalachianstruttstopper]

Actually dents in a golf ball is what makes it fly straighter and further. If a golf ball was smooth like a ping pong ball, it wouldn't go near the distance and have a very erratic flight path, like a baseball pitchers knuckle ball.

Dented lead pellets should have the same aerodynamic advantage as a golf ball over a perfectly round pellet. Slight controlled rotation on a sphere is the only way to stabilize over distance, like that of a round ball muzzle loader, typically 1:66 - 1:72 twist. Any less, unstable projectile; to much twist, likewise.

[L.F. Cox]

Yea but if the golf ball has a nick on it....

Shotgun pellets and golf balls have very little in common.

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

Just a guess but I would thing weight.  I would think with two objects of the same size a heavier object would fly truer through wind resistance than a lighter object.

There is nothing wrong with this statement, all else being equal.   The transverse forces depend on shape and the rotation of the pellet, density fluctuations in the air, and any unevenness in the turbulence caused by the pellet itself, but not the mass.  So the greater the weight for a given size, shape, and initial velocity, the less transverse motion.   Shell manufactures have in the past intentionally deformed shot or made square shot to make them scatter better, but even those deformed or square shot weren't as badly out of round as heavy shot.  One added thing that does happen with hard shot is that there is little stored energy from compression that can be released radially as the shot leaves the barrel.  That component of spreading would be observed even if the gun was fired in vacuum.    For the same size,  TSS for example, is nearly twice the weight of a lead pellet.   That greater density offsets drag and transverse forces by nearly a factor of two.  That's a lot.

[L.F. Cox]

TSS for example, is nearly twice the weight of a lead pellet.   

That's just not true....

[Deputy 14]

? I try to stay out of these kind of arguments but if you take a number 6 lead pellet and a number 6 TSS pellet the TSS pellet will be near twice the weight due to the density of the metal, correct?

[RemingtonRules]

I honestly do not know what to say to what has been written.  I think I am scared to turkey hunt now.

[L.F. Cox]

? I try to stay out of these kind of arguments but if you take a number 6 lead pellet and a number 6 TSS pellet the TSS pellet will be near twice the weight due to the density of the metal, correct?

Put them on a reloading scale and get back to us.....

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

? I try to stay out of these kind of arguments but if you take a number 6 lead pellet and a number 6 TSS pellet the TSS pellet will be near twice the weight due to the density of the metal, correct?

Yes, if they are really the same diameter. The shot size is a measure of the diameter although generally only measured to a 1/100th of an inch. The weight will be the density times the volume.  The density of TSS (tungsten) is nearly twice that of lead.  The TSS pellet of the same diameter as the lead pellet will weigh nearly twice as much.  It is simple math.  You don't need a scale.  If your scale says a tungsten sphere and a lead sphere of the same diameter weight the same, you need a new scale.

[Deputy 14]

Federal heavyweight #7 pellet
15 gcc



Lead #7 Pellet.

I did just what you said LF and this is what I got by weighing the two, and yes, I mic'd them both with a digital caliper and were the same size. So that kinda squashes your theory if I understand this correctly, but I suck at math so if someone who actually knows about this stuff could clarify it I would appreciate it.

[darn2ten]

I think what he is trying to say is its not twice as much. It's basically that lead is 2/3's as dense as TSS. The density of lead depending on antimony in 10.9 - 11.3 g/cc and TSS is 18 g/cc. So TSS is 1/3 more dense than lead.

[Rapscallion Vermilion]

No problem with your densities.   18 divided by 11 is about 1 2/3, so you're certainly right, not quite 2.  But LF is saying something else

Nothing to do with weight...the weight difference between lead. Hevi Shot or TSS is so little it's negligible between individual pellets of equal size.

Deputy's scale shows just what you would expect for Heavyweight 15 g/cc compared to hardened lead shot 10.9 g/cc.