Winchester Longbeard XR Penetration Observation

[Xcal1ber]

My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

[SumToy]

My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

Yes they both will.  You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds.  Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.

[Number17]

My only diconcerting observation on the XR's, and I only patterened them at 40 yards, was that the wads were all recovered approximately 18 yards from my shooting position which is indicative of an extremely tight close pattern.

I wouldn't worry about that one bit. I've had Federal FC wads hit my target at 30 yards and my patterns were never too tight to worry about. The wad should be hitting well behind the shot string.
I believe it's a very common misconception that a tight 30-40 pattern automatically means a "too tight" 20 yard pattern.

[Number17]

And another thing. LBs are just another way of throwing a lead pattern, or just another way of stacking lead into a shot shell.
Coming out of the barrel at 1200 fps they are still just your everyday lead shot, and lead shot has been dumping turkeys for quite some time now.
I just ordered 2 boxes of 5s to try out and I'm not concerning myself with testing penetration one bit. I KNOW what they will do already.

[klemsontigers7]

And another thing. LBs are just another way of throwing a lead pattern, or just another way of stacking lead into a shot shell.
Coming out of the barrel at 1200 fps they are still just your everyday lead shot, and lead shot has been dumping turkeys for quite some time now.
I just ordered 2 boxes of 5s to try out and I'm not concerning myself with testing penetration one bit. I KNOW what they will do already.

Smart man right here.  Penetration into gelatin doesn't tell the whole story.  Being smaller and more dense does allow TSS and Fed HW to penetrate the gel better if they have slightly less energy.

On a live turkey, we only have to penetrate about 1/4" of flesh before striking bone.  A pellet with more energy at bone impact will do more damage, assuming not much of the energy goes into pellet deformation.  Yes some energy is used up to deform the pellet, but #7 lead would kill any turkey walking at 40 yds.  The number of pellets we're able to put in him at 40 yds is remarkable for a $2 shell.

[klemsontigers7]

OP, I'll take that last post means your thread is no longer high jacked.

Carry on

LOL, just saw this since it was on page 1.  I think you're correct, he finally quit talking about it.

[decoykrvr]

As an "old" turkey hunter, I started hunting turkeys w/ lead 4's and eventually moved up to 5's.  It wasn't until 1984, when I had a barrel sleeved by Mark Basner to .665 and the forcing cone lengthened that I was able to get a tight enough pattern to use 6's.  My results w/ the Longbeard XR 6's has shown me that they are producing a shell w/ the potential to put numerous pellets in the head and neck to cleanly harvest turkeys at 40 yards.  With this said, it is still a lead load and the energy of the pellets, esp. the 6's, falls off significantly past 40 yards.  Unfortunately, alot of folks are going to read the slick marketing hype perpetrated by Winchester and assume that 60 yards is the new 40 yards with regard to "killing range".

[huntindawg]

My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

Yes they both will.  You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds.  Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.

Or for the same amount as buying one of your chokes, you could buy enough TSS to load shells for 5 years of killing, shoot them out of the factory choke, and outperform any longbeard pattern out there...

[CrustyRusty]

Cheap shot Huntindawg...sum toy is always helpful on this site, doesn't push his products on here and I have actually seen him advise folks to use chokes other than his.  He wasn't trashing anyone on here or making snide comments, he just poked a little fun at tss and you made it personal. 

[ericjames]

My god, they'll both kill at 40 yards won't they? Then I don't understand what all this fuss is about.

Yes they both will.  You can shoot cheap or high dollar and kill birds.  Then you can bump your head and shoot HIGH DOLLAR tss.

Or for the same amount as buying one of your chokes, you could buy enough TSS to load shells for 5 years of killing, shoot them out of the factory choke, and outperform any longbeard pattern out there...

I wouldn't have enough to hunt with for 5 years off of $65. What is tss going for $50 per pound. If I loaded 1.5 oz load(witch not many people do for 12ga.) that's not but 13 shells for $65 . If I shot just one shell to check for zero that leaves 12 left, then if I limit out at home , I hunt in Alabama and Mississippi since I live only about a mile from the state line. My limit is 8 birds, if I go to Kentucky and Kansas I might have enough but I would not go that far with only 4 shells. Don't get me wrong tss is some good stuff but by the time you spend the $$ for all the equipment to load you have well exceeded the price of a pile of shells that would take years to shoot. You also could buy any choke you wanted too. I know the true cost of loading your own shells. I have thousands invested in it between rifle and shotgun. Not to mention with the shortages in components we have now, even though its starting to get a little better now. Sumtoy has always between helpful to everyone on several of these forums..

[huntindawg]

Cheap shot Huntindawg...sum toy is always helpful on this site, doesn't push his products on here and I have actually seen him advise folks to use chokes other than his.  He wasn't trashing anyone on here or making snide comments, he just poked a little fun at tss and you made it personal.

Wasn't meant to be a cheap shot at all, I was just saying that you can spend roughly the same money on either a choke or shells and get the same results, doesn't mean anyone had to bump their head.

[JuniorPre 360]

Unfortunately, alot of folks are going to read the slick marketing hype perpetrated by Winchester and assume that 60 yards is the new 40 yards with regard to "killing range".

As a new turkey hunter, I hope us newbies will learn that shots shouldn't be taken passed 40 yards, in my opinion. I've been a duck hunter all my life and I hate seeing people taking unethical skybusting shots. My state allows you to kill a swan if you draw a tag. It kills me to see a wounded one on the lake. I hope I don't see wounded or unfound dead turkeys while I'm out hunting. I patterned my gun at 40 yards with the LongBeards and got a great pattern. But I gotta be right on to make a clean kill. Hopefully I'll get a closer and easier shot.

[trkehunr93]

I think we are getting WAY, WAY, WAY to caught up in how far shot penetrates thru metal and into wood and the rock the target was next to, turkey's are made of skin and bone just like us and their bones are alot smaller.  All we really need to be worried about is whether or not we are sending ENOUGH shot, regardless of the size, type and how many grams it weighs, at a turkeys head to break his neck on impact.  When I started turkey hunting in the early 90's my mentor who was an old school hunter told me I needed to pattern my shotgun to make sure it sent an acceptable amount of shot down range into the head and neck to kill a gobbler.  That was it, kill a gobbler!  Granted lead may be softer than HTL but I bet at 1200 fps with an acceptable pattern turkeys will die all the live long day by copper plated lead, coated in resin or not.  My 2 cents! 

[davisd9]

I think we are getting WAY, WAY, WAY to caught up in how far shot penetrates thru metal and into wood and the rock the target was next to, turkey's are made of skin and bone just like us and their bones are alot smaller.  All we really need to be worried about is whether or not we are sending ENOUGH shot, regardless of the size, type and how many grams it weighs, at a turkeys head to break his neck on impact.  When I started turkey hunting in the early 90's my mentor who was an old school hunter told me I needed to pattern my shotgun to make sure it sent an acceptable amount of shot down range into the head and neck to kill a gobbler.  That was it, kill a gobbler!  Granted lead may be softer than HTL but I bet at 1200 fps with an acceptable pattern turkeys will die all the live long day by copper plated lead, coated in resin or not.  My 2 cents!

Great post!

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[tyelper]

that's why I shoot them with a slug