Rifle hunters and spring gobblers

[lonnie sneed jr.]

I hunted with a riffle when I first started turkey hunting in 1968. There was no safety issue with it because there were not alot of turkey hunters. As I got older and learned how to call and get them in close I went to a shotgun and never looked back. To ME the sport of turkey hunting is calling them in close and killing them close, with a shotgun or bow. Last year my Dad about lost his right eye and had to have surgery on it. The doctor told him for no reason could he shoot a shotgun, that the recoil could make him loose his sight for good in that eye. Dad hunted with a 222 that had very little recoil. For a reason like that or other med. reason I have no problem with a riffle, but if you are healthy enough to shoot a shotgun thin to ME that is what I would use if not a bow. But I could never see why someone would put a scope on a shotgun either, unless they had bad eye sight. I might have to put a scope on my shotgun someday, I am diabetic and my eyes are slowly leaving me. But for ME I don't want one on MY shotgun. I am not saying they are wrong or right. To me if it is legal its not wrong but its not right. It amazes me that so many people will want to hear what you think and when someone makes a statement that other people don't like thin they want to get mad about it. All any of this stuff is what I and other people think and believe. Our beliefs does not make it right or wrong. It is just what one person thinks. 

[ziggy]

So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.

yeah, because this is such a large sample size of all the turkey hunters in the nation.  come on now, i know statistics can be used to prove or disprove about anything, but let's be reasonable.  this forum is not indicative of how dangerous a shotgun vs rifle is.  here's just a little sample of virginia and west virginia.  the people getting shot with shotguns are more, because more people carry shotguns.

http://ww2.roanoke.com//roatimes/news/story149124.html

"Of 156 shotgun-related accidents since 1967, 13 were fatal. Of 17 rifle shootings, eight were fatal. That translates to the rifle fatality rate being 5.7 times higher than the shotgun fatality rate."

all this doesn't affect me one way or the other, as i live in sc and we're shotgun only (thank god, i couldn't even imagine some of these yahoos toting a rifle into the turkey woods).  the only reason anyone would hunt with a rifle is because they're either too lazy or too unskilled to call one in close.

[lumberjack]

So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.

I'm sure there are far more turkey hunters "accidentally" shot with shotguns, not because they are more dangerous, but because more turkey hunters use shotguns, there are more of them out there.  If we are basing truth on this thread, I would infer that rifles are far more dangerous.  Very few have said they actually hunt with a rifle, I havent added it up but we will use the number 5 as it should be close.  A bunch have stated they use only a shotgun in five pages of posts, I'll guess that number is maybe 40.  SO, 2 out of 5 with a rifle 40% or 2 out of 40, 5%.  So based on whats presented like you are saying its 8 times more dangerous to hunt with a rifle!!!!  Now there is no way this is even remotely accurate!! Basing real life (or death unfortunately) on a few pages of comments on a forum board is as inaccutate as claiming teats on a boar hog are worthless!! 

[wvcurlytop]

So, shooting them in the face with a bunch of little pellets is somehow more "dignified"  Really? Learn something new every day.  By the way I'm not advocating rifles for turkeys but this statement is hilarious to me

Hey is that a "Shotgun" in your profile picture??

Why it sure is, did I ever say I hunted turkeys with a rifle? Nope I didn't, because I don't. I just find it really funny that someone thinks its more "dignified" to die by shotgun blast than by bullet or arrow. Like the turkey really cares   

Not saying you used rifles, but you made it sound terrible to use a shotgun, or as you put it to shoot one in the face with a whole bunch of pellets, that is all.  I thought that was a little hypocritical when you actually had a pic of one.  But let's not argue over it, I meant nothing by it.  Thanks for explaining your stance on it.  And you're right, a dead turkey is a dead turkey, we're only discussing the methods to get him there and everyone has their own opinions on the method to do it with. 
I just personally feel as a sportsman, it is far more ethical, challenging and sporting to shoot one with a shotgun, which means I had to get him close, and not sniping him from a 100 yards or more.  To me that is groundhog hunting, but again, that is my opinion.  Some people with native American blood may think we're all cheating if we're using anything but a bow and arrow!!!! 

As for Mr. Sneed's comment on scoped shotguns, I got started using them as a kid from an uncle who was diabetic and had failing eyesight, and when he took me hunting he insisted I use his gun.  It grew on me, and I put one on my own shotgun and I love it.  Did I do it in hopes of gaining his approval, perhaps to hear him say "That's my boy" or did I do it because the scope ensures you keep your head down and cheek on the stock and helping to eliminate shooting over his head when turkey fever hits you?  How about BOTH!!  Try a scope sometime, you may like it! 

[30_06]

I think my point has been lost. Merely trying to show that the perceived danger of hunting turkeys with rifles is just that. Perceived, I have not seen any data either here or using google that shows it to actually be any more dangerous than hunting with a shotgun.

To sum up my feelings on this issue I would say if its legal then I don't really care. I'm still going to hunt with either a shotgun or a bow, not because of any perceived safety issues or because a turkey is so noble it shouldn't be killed with anything else. Merely because I enjoy the hunt better with one of those two weapons.

[Gooserbat]

First I agree 100%! But now I'm going to play devil's advocate and ask a single question.  Then if it's "wrong" to stretch the distance with a rifle, why do we (and I use the term "we" as a general referance to the majority of turkey hunters) strive so hard to extend our range with special chokes, HTL loads that cost out the wazoo, rifle sights, and/or scopes, shooting sticks...

Just something to think about.

40 yards today is the same as 40 yards 50 years ago.  All we've done with today's chokes, ammo, sights, etc is ensure we put "More" pellets in the head and neck at that distance and closer.  Honestly we never even patterned shotguns 30 years ago, and still killed turkeys.  Don't know how, as I've patterned a few of those older guns and man, they were bad!  But some were sufficient, not as great as today, but any turkey inside 40 yards was dead as long as the hunter did his part.  I'm just saying, answering the devil's question sort of speak.  It has been the turkey hunter's quest to ensure a "Dead" turkey, not a  wounded one once they hit that 40 yard marker.  That isn't cheating, that is sound hunting practices.  We want to make sure he is Dead!  If you really want to play the Devil's advocate, perhaps all of us should use longbows with wooden arrows and flint broadheads.  They were here first!!  No, the shotguns of today has advanced and they pattern much better, are lighter, better sights than just a bead, etc, but 40 yards is 40 yards.  And on this forum you can't talk about any shots over that, so that is the end of that..   We've just taken an old technology and made it perform better, but still within the accepted limits of the past.

Just because it's legal, doesn't make it right.

I'm shocked at the number of guys here that shrug it off as tolerable and acceptable.

Have some backbone, people.

Just hold on there.  No one has the say as to whether or not it's right.  Now it's nontraditional as far as most of us are concerned and that's where a lot of guys are drawing the line.   That's the same as making a villain out of an  AR 15 just because it looks like a "Army gun." 

I wouldn't do it but I don't bait deer either, but dose that make it wrong to condition deer to a feed station or a food plot only to be waiting on them one day and Bamm! you shot one?   

All I'm trying to say is don't make people or their practices, when and where leagal, out to be bad.  If it efects you as a hunter and your in the majority then patetion the state to get it changed.

And the answer I got from our regional biologist, who is also a member of the NWTF, is that the NRA would fight it as they consider the banning of rifles for the spring season as a form of "Gun Control" since it has been legal in our state for so many years.  I don't want to be viewed as some idiot against gun ownership, because that is untrue.  I'm all about the right to bear arms, so I am sort of lost as to what to do. 


Now imagine that rifle hunter shooting a turkey at a 100 yards, one that he didn't call in, but ambushed, and it was a Jake!!!  Does that make any difference??  It happened last year, and the guy talked like he really laid the smack down on one.  Just saying..

OK In response to the first quote I'm not taking issue with the use of rifles.  I wouldn't hunt with one, It's not my thing.  I do build turkey calls...I want to call them...it's my kicks and giggles...I want them close and then I want to feed them lead to the head!

Another thing is I will never believe that anyone goes to the trouble of setting up a turkey gun especially a 3.5 12 gauge, just to ensure a 40 yard pattern.  Just because we don't discuss it around here doesn't change the fact...Remember "fudge factor" 

As far as the  NWTF and NRA are concerned, you need to start educating folks instead of attacking their way of hunting ie their traditions. 

Safety?  You bet I don't for one second disagree that it has a genuine safety issue but at the same time that's an individual disicion that we shouldn't try to mandate our beliefs on others.
And the fella that poped the jake...Was it legal?  Was he proud of it?  Then yes he did do something and far be it from me to belittle another hunter over his chose to harvest a legal game animal. 

To me it seems to be very prevalent in your post that it's your opinion is the right and only way, and there are no other ways.  I myself believe that some things are written in stone but most things aren't.  I think outside the box, because a box is a trap and a trap is a dangerous place.

btw we're still friends.

[ziggy]

I think my point has been lost. Merely trying to show that the perceived danger of hunting turkeys with rifles is just that. Perceived, I have not seen any data either here or using google that shows it to actually be any more dangerous than hunting with a shotgun.

To sum up my feelings on this issue I would say if its legal then I don't really care. I'm still going to hunt with either a shotgun or a bow, not because of any perceived safety issues or because a turkey is so noble it shouldn't be killed with anything else. Merely because I enjoy the hunt better with one of those two weapons.

did you not read my post?  rifle fatalities in va and wv are 5.7 times higher then shotgun.  i posted a link and everything.

[TauntoHawk]

If they allowed rifles in the state I hunt I wouldn't ever hunt public, and i would never use any kind of decoys. In my mind its wayyy more dangerous and completely unnecessary

[fldoghunter]

In the past, the general opinion on this forum has been that it is unsafe and unethical.

I don't care about general opinions. I miss using my 22 magnum since they outlawed rifles on public land in Fla. I killed a few with it and most where within easy shotgun range. I never was worried about getting shot any more than if I was squirle hunting. I think the unsafe arguement was used to outlaw them, because folks thought it was unethical. Both my kids killed there first turkeys with a rifle at close range, because of recoil.

[Timber Chicken]

the turkey hunters use shotguns, and the turkey killers use rifles.

I unfortunately live in a state where they are legal. Put the whole safety factor aside Anyone can shoot them with a rifle there is absolutely NO sport in shooting them and that is all you are doing with a rifle is shooting them you are not hunting them.

[willy8457]

 

[Old Gobbler]

So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.

let me elaborate more clearly -- In Florida , we have had about 4 fatal turkey hunting incidents -- none of them were perpetuated with the use of a shot gun with bird shot , none

All of them had two things in common , a idiot was behind the trigger, and they were not using bird shot-- that statement can't be twisted in any other tangent IMO

[Gooserbat]

So, to date on this thread we have 2 people killed by a rifle, and two more killed by either slugs or buckshot from a shotgun...not sure about the legality of using buckshot or slugs, but either way that is a total of four people. I'm not trying to discount anyone's loss but the numbers are not supporting the theory that rifle hunting turkeys is anymore dangerous.
From the numbers presented it would mean that hunting turkeys with turkey loads is more dangerous than hunting turkeys with rifles or illegal shotgun loads.

let me elaborate more clearly -- In Florida , we have had about 4 fatal turkey hunting incidents -- none of them were perpetuated with the use of a shot gun with bird shot , none

All of them had two things in common , a idiot was behind the trigger, and they were not using bird shot-- that statement can't be twisted in any other tangent IMO

That sums it all up right there.

[Old Gobbler]

In every state there is all kinds of differing regulations , they all have purposes but the safety related ones are designed as hurdles for where a idiot can't pass beyond or won't bother  - hunter safety , weapons restrictions  and so on

As a group we are better off isolating and removing these types from the group for personal safety , the rules the better IMO

[Solid Snake]

I'm in disbelief that it's actually legal to hunt spring turkey with a rifle. I'm with vaturkstomper on this - how can you be proud of your turkey that you killed from 150 yds while he's munchin on some grasshoppers? I'm from Indiana so we can't even hunt deer with rifle here but I understand there's thicker/more woods and hills but it seems extremely unsafe and unsportsmanlike to me. I personally wouldn't want to be sitting 30 yds behind a decoy in complete camo!!

Vaturkstomper is right - just bc it's legal don't make it right. It's legal for me to walk under a roosted turkey and blast him outa the tree too but I'm not going to do it.