How tight is too tight?

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

In your patterning experience, what seems to be the greatest amount of / "tightest" constriction for getting the most dense patterns with HTL and or Lead shells?  Where is the point beyond which your HTL / Lead patterns begin to suffer from being overchoked?

I'm looking at the idea of using the same shell through two different chokes, vs. the idea of using two different shells through the same choke for short range, and long range.  What is the max constriction that yields increased density with heavy turkey loads?

So far, from what I've seen it's .065 to .075 

[mcgruff1533]

It's hard to say, but I don't think there is any iron clad choke E.D. that is too tight for HTL shot.    There are too many variables to consider, and what shoots poorly in one gun might be a rock solid combo in another gun.    Some of these variables include, but are not limited to the following:  Barrel length/ smoothness, barrel I.D., length/finish of forcing cone, shot hardness/ composition, choke design and ultimately the weather.    Folks don't realize it, but weather (especially temperature) have a profound effect on pattern density.

One gun might be over choked with a .660" while another might shoot a .643" quite well.    Also consider that not all HTL shot is created the same and has different component materials that respond differently to choking.    Another thing to remember is that individual choke design can be vastly different.     A .660" choke from Indian Creek could perform nothing like a .660" Jelly Head.

It really comes down to pattern testing to determine what works for your particular gun.

[jblackburn]

I can't really give you a number, either.  But, you will know it if you do over-choke!  Your pattern will be poor!

[Skeeterbait]

It depends on what gun you are shooting what choke you are shooting and what shell you are shooting.  You can't just say "never go tighter than .xxx"  Guns have different bore diameters.  A 12 gauge Benelli has a smaller bore than a 12 gauge Remington, which has a smaller bore than a Mossberg 835.  The correct choke diameter for a Benelli would be way too tight for an 835.  Also the correct choke diameter for #6 shot will be too tight for #4 shot.  A choke that shoots HTL good may be too tight for lead because it would compress and flatten the lead pellets making them not fly streight.  It also is dependent on choke design.  You can go tigher in some brand chokes than you can in others simply because of how the choke is made. What you ask can only be applied to one specific gun, one specific choke and one specific shell at a time.

[allaboutshooting]

I continue to appreciate the knowledge of the folks who regularly visit and participate in discussions on Old Gobbler. I see a genuine effort to share what we've learned with others.

What we've learned over the years is exactly what has been expressed by prior posters on this subject. The design of a choke, "internal geometry", part of which is the parallel section which leads to the exit diameter, is much more important than the exit diameter alone. That is why one choke with one e.d. might work and another choke with a different e.d. might work equally well.

Great question, great responses and a lot of knowledge expressed.

Thanks,
Clark

[paladin]

Clark I believe a parallel section as long as the shot column is needed to stablize the shot completely.

[allaboutshooting]

Clark I believe a parallel section as long as the shot column is needed to stablize the shot completely.

Some choke tube designers have used the wad length as a guide for the parallel length. All those other "tweaks" have a lot to do with what the designer thinks works best for the remainder of his design.

Stabilizing the shot charge is a very interesting subject in itself.

Thanks,
Clark

[tyelper]

im no expert or no professor but from my experience that i have tried a .665 choke on up to the fabulous .690 in the 835 shoot the number 6's 5's 4's better than the .640 that shoot the mega blend good, i guess what im trying to say the bigger the shot going through a tight exit hole tend to cross in an x if to tight this is just my experience,,

[SumToy]

Alot more to it then the exit I.D. and the parallel.   The amount of take down will change from bore to bore.  835/935 goes around a 100% most of the others will run around 70%.  Now with shoot size and type that will change also. Patterns are 3D not 2D.   

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I think alot of it depends as Clark would say on the internal geometry.  The Tru-Glo SSX just to give and example of internals is one of the few chokes that goes down as tight as a .643 exit diameter and still can promote great patterns from guys that have used them on here from their guns including Clark.  There is no denying that it does shoot well.  But I will go one step father than most here, and try to attempt from my findings in the guns I have shot and give some insight on what I think about the question.  On the guns I have seen and shot with, I honestly think on most chokes that there is no need to go tighter than .655 from what I have seen typically.  Now that's not saying some chokes at .650 can't still shoot well.  But in playing with Indian Creek chokes for example, optimum patterns on my 870 could be obtained at .669 and I tried 4 chokes - .665, .655, .669, and .675.  The .669 shot the best.  .655 shot better than the .665.  And the .675 shot about like the .655.  But having said this, all chokes regardless of exit diameter and even if they are made by the same exact company will vary.  Now they may be close to being repeatable for consitency from size to size, but you will still find one particular choke if you shot say 10 different .655 Indian Creek chokes that would still stand out above the others in your gun.  And that difference very well could carry over from other 870's as well.  Now granted I never tried a .650 Indian Creek in my 870, but looking at the pattern for that choke told me I'm on the tight side, and went back up the other way and pattern got even better overall.  Now I hope this helps. 

[allaboutshooting]

I think alot of it depends as Clark would say on the internal geometry.  The Tru-Glo SSX just to give and example of internals is one of the few chokes that goes down as tight as a .643 exit diameter and still can promote great patterns from guys that have used them on here from their guns including Clark.  There is no denying that it does shoot well.  But I will go one step father than most here, and try to attempt from my findings in the guns I have shot and give some insight on what I think about the question.  On the guns I have seen and shot with, I honestly think on most chokes that there is no need to go tighter than .655 from what I have seen typically.  Now that's not saying some chokes at .650 can't still shoot well.  But in playing with Indian Creek chokes for example, optimum patterns on my 870 could be obtained at .669 and I tried 4 chokes - .665, .655, .669, and .675.  The .669 shot the best.  .655 shot better than the .665.  And the .675 shot about like the .655.  But having said this, all chokes regardless of exit diameter and even if they are made by the same exact company will vary.  Now they may be close to being repeatable for consitency from size to size, but you will still find one particular choke if you shot say 10 different .655 Indian Creek chokes that would still stand out above the others in your gun.  And that difference very well could carry over from other 870's as well.  Now granted I never tried a .650 Indian Creek in my 870, but looking at the pattern for that choke told me I'm on the tight side, and went back up the other way and pattern got even better overall.  Now I hope this helps.

Very well stated.

Thanks,
Clark