$10 a pound TSS???????

[Jourdan_D]

Saw a post yesterday about TSS for $10 a pound.  Can't seem to find it anymore, anyone know were it went or have a link?

[Jourdan_D]

I must be missing something? What's the point of joking about $10 TSS??

[Old Gobbler]

It was talked about for various reasons and it was decided not to have anything to do with that business

also I'm sorry for all the drama dealing with the reloading gone but I just don't feel like risking my finacial future plus the safety of other people just to have that section on the site

I'll say that it is my responsibility to make sure the site is friendly and that requires that the members "be nice" that's all

[Jourdan_D]

I've been off the site for a bite so must have missed a bunch. But I don't see how tss reloading is unsafe vs other shells.  they only run about 14,000 PSI vs for example the nitro's I had tested were running 19,500 PSI and they are discussed all the time?

[Old Gobbler]

Give me about 10 minutes I'm on my way home and I'll give out a detailed explanation - sk

[Old Gobbler]

Okay I'm gonna rewind it a few years for the benefit of the forum members - I'm going to skim over the history of a few things and be upfront and strait to the issue

Reloading on the forum OG has always went on - My initial assessment is that a core group of about half a dozen very enthusiastic reloading folks were into reloading 18gg material , it was underground at that time but as time it progressed - some turned a hobby into a small business where they sold the material and facilitated the recipes - I'm fine with all that except some folks were bragging about some longer shots , not 40.5 yards 90+ yards - still nothing to fuss about I over looked hoping it would not occur  

Lets fast forward it a few years now , reloading is gaining popularity the performance level exceeds anything commercially available - one setback is that the company that sells it state side is no longer - regardless reloading becomes more popular , the strongest promoters of it are very proud of -I'm fine with that

About this time we start to notice a overly critical persona developing on the OG site where members , start going toe to toe with ammo companies , this creates a embarrassing situation for the site , because we created the site to help all businesses - a few small skirmishes occur over this , but I chalk it up to boredom and pride getting the better of most folks -

About a year and a half ago , reloading started to get even more popular , I upon the urging of the members created the special reloading section , that quickly developed into 99% TSS { a good product mind you } the business model of it is that there were a few people testing and selling TSS handloads and information - this is when the Reloading really boomed -- all is good at this time except at the very same time we were getting a surge of people wanting to have 60 yard turkey guns , we found this troubling - because many of the people doing so had very little turkey hunting experience - we kept getting crippled bird threads popping up -

New we get to the trouble parts - im going to make this as short as possible and leave out anything personal - we have grown tired of the personal attacks that have gone on , and we are going to take the lead by leaving out the names and name calling - were going to be civil

Now lets talk about Feb 2012 , we the staff are starting to get very concerned about the newbie hunters and what they are doing , we are turkey hunters to the CORE here on OG the thought of newbie hunters wanting to , and taking 60+ yard shots at gobblers id very damaging to the Wild Turkey , WT Hunting , and the site we were getting a bad reputation as being the "long shot forum" so.....we asked one thing out of all the members , just to keep the talk of the over 40 yard shots on the down low  now lets be specific we didnt tell anyone to what to do with their guns , all we asked was that if it was over 40 yards , just keep it on the down low , or leave that part out

This is where we start to see some real personal stuff go down , now some folks reloading  are very proud of their guns , some started to take this as some kind problem for them - we saw bragging of 88 and 93 yards - Ill be honest tempers flared on all sides even mine - they dug their heels in , so did we - we made it well known that the long football field shot promotion was over - We were upset that folks just could not comply , so we started to investigate into the small business of selling components

Part 2 coming up soon

[Old Gobbler]

Part 2

Okay now lets pick up where we left off

We are starting to see some drama out of the reloading camp , we see some drama about this ,about that , we are kinda tired of it at this time and tempers flare even more on both sides of the issue - We start to get a better picture of how the reselling of TSS18gg comes into the picture as most of it is resold for some sort of proffit by the same people very big on promoting the long shot effectiveness of it - at the same the staff here is trying to keep a lid on the over 40 yard talk cause we know gobbler cripple threads are popping up like crazy - the worst part is that people are taking 50+ yard shots like it is nothing and then venting on the equipment , {not operator error} We the staff are getting really pissed now cause all we asked is one simple thing to keep the 40 yard thing under wraps

about this time we start looking into the ATF issue cause we are informed that there could be some legal issues because some people are selling and gifting the shells to folks for cost of materials --as in I know its going on now and I could be in trouble myself .... this is where I start to get real concerned ....  Cause Ive dealt with the ATF before when I sold guns as a dealer - at the same time we are seeing more drama as some reloading people are badgering ammunition companies over performance and perceived safety issues - this is when I start to smell legal trouble , because I was warned before by a well meaning person that there could be a slander suit

Then I start to look into the liability part to myself , as I consult legal council as in "lawyer up" we start to do some serious research into reloads and liability and am informed that people selling ammo should have a product liability coverage of $1,000,000 I am  advised that people selling and gingerly skirting ATF rules on OG   must go .... as in accounts deleted ...sorry guys , my family comes first....  because if someone gets hurt that will not protect me from getting my azz sued off -- at this time some of the friends of the business people selling components start to get all emotional about it , more drama......  again we make loooong post explaining the moves made and why --- but we get more drama , we are normal people with jobs and families and we don't have time for it , sorry guys..... nothing personal , my family comes first we are advised to not allow any recipes  or handload instruction take place cause I can get sued if someone gets hurt

at this time even more tempers flare on all sides , as name calling and the like , smack talk etc,,, we start to see some very absurd talk of killing gobblers at 110 yards with TSS shot - we go ape chit over that ....more drama...more drama...by this time the group that reloads circles the wagons on their stance ..  we do so too ....name calling accusation all around we take our stance that we dont want to hear about any more shooting gobblers at 88 93 and 110 yards ... and they have now made me out to be satan of the internet -

We have legal council review just the front page of the reloading section , let me tell you I hardly looked at the reloading section till this time  , we noticed people giving out instruction and admitting openly of do this and pressure goes sky high on a certain crimping procedure , at the same time people are buying ammo poring out the shot and swapping it out for another material right on the forum ..... we are getting anonymous phone calls from members  who witnessed other members that have received tutelage and guidance from reloading component sellers and load formula giver outers and they are informing me of how dangerous and hot these handloads they are brewing up are - one guy told me he stopped one guy after he pulled the trigger on the first round and told him to leave his property cause he was so concerned - we the admin and staff go to DEFCON 4  and freak out , anticipating a deadly situation , and take action -there is more smack talk , more emotional BS - with a crackdown on the smack talk , and we are forced to close down the reloading section .....let me repeat again , we dont want anyone to get hurt, and I dont want to get sued either ....

at this time we are up to date on the time cycle of things -- name calling and smack talk are rampant - we are all getting emotional about it --but nobody got hurt , thank GOD !!!


Is reloading safe? yes if you know what you are doing

Is reloading very dangerous ? your damn straight  if you have no experience and start to stray off the load recipe

Should someone shoot someones reloads ?  its your life not mine

Can people talk about and post about relaods on OG ? yes , so long as you leave out the instructional particulars ...lawyer poof


A message to the people that we have fought with over the reloading ........sorry guys , I really am sorry you had to fight with me over it , not saying any of you are not safe , but the way things were going ..... it was looking like there was going to be a situation  

, I reloaded , My dad reloaded , we were safe , some of you may be safe and expert - but you know what I got a bad feeling some fool is going to borrow your load recipie , mod it and blow themselves up , I dont want that to happen - so I took these precautions for my family , they come first - dont  take it personal --SK  

part 3 coming up

[Brent]

When I logged off last night I thought I was about to be able to buy TSS so cheap I could start shoooting doves with it..............Now I get on here this evening and the thread is gone.  What happened?

[Old Gobbler]

Now part 3 ...

Ill include this as a extra , you may get creeped out , if you do ---too bad some people think bad things cant happen to them .....chit happens as they say....


lets take a step back 30- 40 years or more so all of you get to know me a little more , this could get a little emotional , cause I will let you in on a few things that I almost never discuss cause they are very painful for me to talk about - I'm doing this so you all know who I am what I am about and why we do the things we do - Hang with me here on this even the people that are mad at me calling me and my staff names  - then I will go into the history of the OG site

First of all My Father got me into turkey hunting , so its been near 30 years  for me , by the time I was out of high school I had already killed turkeys with gun , bow and muzzleloader -- fall, spring didn't matter I was turkey hunting - by this time we had a call company

Well some of you may say what the heck has this got to do with reloading and lawsuits?  well let me get to the sad part , 1992  Me , my dad and my uncle {who were my two best friends }were hunting together and some fool we didnt even know snuck in from behind and  went and shot at the sound of my dads call , he just shot right at the sound -  hit my poor uncle Mike right in the face , that is with a 16 gauge slug , killed him --- we are talking a very traumatic experience ......he left behind 2 boys - to this day it is very hard for to deal with it , I was nearly killed my self and somehow count every day as a gift from God

Our family in the state of Florida , took that guy to court for wrongful death -- sued him for a very large sum of money and won a eyeopener suit -  lets say $300,000 clams , I dont want to see anyone here get hurt like this , or even sued too ..... so I took precautions    

My father God rest his soul , took it in stride and lived his life like a real turkey hunter , he passed some years ago , when my father was buried at the cemetery my mother without my prior knowledge put him in a suit he would have liked - I didn't find out that he was buried in a certain brand of camouflage suit he loved to hunt in - that's right my mom who hated turkey hunting had my dad buried in his turkey hunting gear cause she knew he was that hard core - and knew he would have wanted it that way - my dad was well known as very good turkey hunter , guys actually showed up to the service in camo - no lie  

Some of you may be asking geeze....Shannon got all weird on us

here is why ,,,,turkey hunting is dangerous ...... I care about you guys, even the ones that hate me ...... it can get deadly people get shot and killed turkey hunting - reloading is similar , there are risks included with reloading , one is not to hap- hazzerdly hand out load data to strangers that you dont know that puts ME at risk - if your meeting a person on the street thats your business , if its via this site I become Liable , I dont want to hear about this law or that internet law , let me tell you that a good lawyer will make a good time out of a blown up gun from someone providing data and material with instruction --  

soo lets get back to the reloading .....its gone guys , sorry - if you called me or my staff names , I forgive you now cause Im good person and we can move on , If I or my staff did the same to you , perhaps you are good men about it and do the same  - shake hands move on - in the past there has been some uglyness - it revolves around this one thing , my families security comes first , do not take it personal

If however ..... after me going into full detail and explanation of the sites events history of the site and me - why we did what we do - and you still want to bear a grudge by members continuing to hurdle insults and make fun of my dedicated staff -- then there is the door guys , I dont know what more to say about the situation with the reloading - im not going to be responsible for someone getting hurt - sorry --SK

[Old Gobbler]

When I logged off last night I thought I was about to be able to buy TSS so cheap I could start shoooting doves with it..............Now I get on here this evening and the thread is gone.  What happened?

Brent I don't know too much about the TSS , thing that Al was working on - he stumbled upon it a week or so and although had some reservations about it , he was doing the leg work for the members  - I was informed of this a few days ago

We actually have a friend who speaks fluent Chinese and in the process to negotiate a very good deal for the members in a group by , the shipping was a "mo-fo" if you get the drift - but again I work for a very large shipping company and could run circles around any shipping quotes and import duties  - Al was in the process of doing this for the members when , you know what we started to get the usual heckling and smack talk on the internet from the usual people with a grudge against Al - so there went that he doesn't have to sit and take it like that , so no deal - most of the smack ralk is related to the camp that is not happy about some of the reloading drama  that took place , again family first - sorry dudes


I want to say something right now , Somebody has to run any internet social site , if the staff of a social site doesn't assert themselves , then the more assertive members in the group will start to call the shots -- and the social site goes right down the drain in short order  Al does allot for OG members , he is the main heavy here and has a take no BS attitude , love him or hate him when you look at the 4,000 members that have signed onto OG in the last year and a half , they did so cause the staff  maintains the site to squeaky clean standards -  we take time out of our daily lives to monitor the site and make sure it is sanitary - 

It is not easy to pull of a task like this cause you get any group of people and you are going to have a disagreements - typically the staff that goes in to clean up a fight gets blamed for the fight in the first place , this has been going on for some time now, and people continue to call me the staff etc.... names , insults etc,,,,, happens all the time ,we have thick skin , this has got old , even when we try to help folks we still get heckling

As far as any TSS deal , I didnt have any involvement with it , and ....I CANT for liability

[Brent]

Thanks for the explanation.  Most places I hunt you can't see more than forty yards to start with.  The advantage to TSS for me is that it is capable of turning a twenty gauge into the equivalent of what a ten gauge would have been five years ago, and it turns a .410 into the equivalent of what a twenty gauge would have been five years ago.

If I can walk around in the woods with a gun that has weighs five pounds, has the firepower of a ten gauge, and doesn't have hardly any recoil; I really can't find a downside to that.

[Old Gobbler]

Thanks for the explanation.  Most places I hunt you can't see more than forty yards to start with.  The advantage to TSS for me is that it is capable of turning a twenty gauge into the equivalent of what a ten gauge would have been five years ago, and it turns a .410 into the equivalent of what a twenty gauge would have been five years ago.

If I can walk around in the woods with a gun that has weighs five pounds, has the firepower of a ten gauge, and doesn't have hardly any recoil; I really can't find a downside to that.

there are 2.6 million turkey hunters they say in the US  - and a handful of people reloading TSS , not going to knock TSS its good stuff if you know your thing and you are responsible

For whatever reason TSS looks never to be commercially made on a mass production mode   , lets say Nitro , or Remington was making the stuff then we would not have all this liability drama circling the site - something happened to someone , no fault of ours ......  but that isn't the case

you mentioned 20 ga .....you may have seen some of my posts in the 20 ga area , and it is mentioned even to Pastor of a congregation in church requires a liability policy - sign of the times guys , take a look at some of those posts too , you will see some insight on the legal situation

for those of you that reload and loan out a shell or two or sold components , even if your mad at me about the recent events ...I strongly urge you to review your home owner policy and your state laws regarding liability - cause all its going to take is one small mishap by some fool , and you families future savings are in risk

 

[3" 870 Shell Shucker]

I think your posts above will help those who weren't completely aware of every little detail that was going on behind the scenes.  I think it will help them "understand" the whole deal.  It gives us some insight into the complexity of hosting a popular website, and the decisions that have to be made.

I hate to think that knowledgeable people may have left, but I also appreciate the fact that the website is still here for the rest of us.

[Old Gobbler]

Yes , there are a few people gone  -

Tempers have flared really , really badly over this situation me and some of the staff have went into a standoff over - The name calling and insults have gone on too long over the situation , the slightest thing was setting some of us off - I want you to understand one thing we take peoples safety very seriously if you know know by now Ive seen some very heavy stuff go down with turkey hunting and know Ive been around a long time   we also work very hard on the site for little or nothingits very insulting when we hear people poking fun at us , and the whole time we have their best interests at heart - we got lives to live and cant be glued to the computer 24/7 watching some people

This is what I am doing , I went in and let a few people back on the site , after looking at a few things , i think most were drawn into this without their knowledge but I will tell you this I see any name calling .....

let me let you guys know something ,in the turkey hunting forum biz there are a handful of people not welcome anywhere , I actually went about 6 months having the site before I had to kick my first member , I felt bad about it - but at the same time I just didn't have time to run around cleaning up after the mess that person was making , because we would get word back that the- were hell bent on causing us {at that time} as much trouble as possible



since then  , yes there have been more troublesome people , typically they are not welcome on most sites , and I learned the hard way - I had people with felony records a mile long not even allowed to own a gun , on the site slandering me , running to another site bad mouthing me and the staff - let me tell you something one thing I learned about the internet is that everyone is a expert , and everyone has to have their side of the story heard ..... Ive seen kids that live at home with their mom pass themselves off as a turkey hunting legend and start to cause trouble for the members with smart azz remarks -- things like this start to get on nerves  

The troublesome people are usually not welcome anywhere . banned on most sites ,and wait for situations like this on social sites that will put up with them  ,then when a situation pops up like this they  insert themselves into the crisis elsewhere and do their very best to get emotions flared , they tell lies  .....oh man do they tell lies , then the stretch the truth...they encourage unknowing members to simulate their rude behavior , their favorite tactic to get on the staffs nerves is to start in with the name calling ......they love that..... they try to spread discontent , and draw in as many people as possible , nothing is a secret on the internet and people spread the word , before  long word gets back there is some serious smack talk going on , the staff and I see people are calling us names , and the troublesome folks are trying to make it look like our good members are making fun of the staff - the goal is of course to draw in as many unwitting folks as possible

Ive seen , and everyone has seen publicly , even though he now lies about it  in the last few weeks a former member make a threat of violence towards one of my moderators .......what do you do with a situation like that if your a site owner??

I have a dedicated staff member who takes time out of his life to help all of you .... maintain this place for you all for FREE , and some guy went and got all bent out of shape and makes threats of violence towards my staff member.......meanwhile we see people just go along , like nothing happened - so tempers have flared yes.......  did he get a apology over that no......

but anyways - name calling and threats and insults have been thrown all around - so you can see the situation needs to be handled in a more adult manner by some folks

----SK




 

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I guess I'm behind on the times after reading all of this.  I knew something went down, but didn't know all of it.  

I for one think you do a great job Shannon.  And the same goes for Al.  Somebody has to run the show, and like you said if not then all the internet wonders will try to do so.  I don't get on here as much as I used too, but I still will say this site is a lot better than the rest.  Sort of like family to me and the friends we all have here.  I still enjoy reading the threads here and seeing what the guys have been up to.  I also enjoy the pictures.  

Brad