Interesting debate going on in Missouri

[Hooksfan]

A questionnaire being sent out by the Missouri Department of Conservation is creating a little bit of a stir in the Show-Me state.  Several questions are being asked of recent participants in the 2012 Spring Turkey Season.  The two creating the most discussion concern extending shooting hours from the current 1 pm closure to allow all day hunting and the second regulation change deals with the possibility of having a week long early archery season.

As it now stands, Missouri closes at 1 pm and only allows the taking of one bird during the first week of the season.  Any youth taking a bird during the youth season and anyone taking a bird during the first week must wait until the second Monday (season always opens on a Monday) of the season to take their second bird.  The one bird/first week rule would apply for the archery season from what I can tell--I have already written my letter to the rules committee asking for a change for the youth season to allow successful kids to take their second bird during the first week of the regular season.

I will say that I am not a big fan of the MDC.  Without going into much detail and this becoming a MDC bashing thread (which is not my intent), I will say it is my opinion that it  is much more of a politicized organization than most Game Departments due to a 1/8 cent statewide sales tax appropriated to the MDC creating an over regulating huge government bureaucracy running the show.

I fully support the idea of all day hunting.  I am not in favor of the early archery season.  While a lot of folks cite the increased pressure as a factor for why they oppose it, and I agree that it will have an impact--especially on public ground--increased pressure is not why I oppose it.
I am not in favor of it mostly on the principle that I do not believe archery hunters need to have an early season.  I have hunted in Kansas during the early archery season and would likely do it in Missouri as well, but I don't think we need it.  If folks chase them with a bow for the increased challenge, then why would they need to have the advantage of an early season?
I also believe that coyotes will be the greatest beneficiary of an early archery season.  I believe if most folks were honest they would admit there is a high wound rate here--Not necessarily for a lot of folks that I know who are deadly with a bow and live and breath turkey hunting.  But  I would argue they would be in the minority and there would be a lot of clueless goofs "feeding the coyotes".
At the least, it looks like turkey hunters in Missouri will have a lively debate to keep up their interest in the off season this year.
I would support several changes in Missouri, but an archery season is not one of them--I would be willing to compromise if they included a week long youth season to coincide with the archery season like they do in Kansas.  Surely the bow hunters wouldn't mind extending their preferential treatment to kids?

[stinkpickle]

One change at a time would be OK.  Before they start messing with season start dates, I would like to see either the 1PM stop time dropped OR the one bird per day (one in the first week) limit dropped.  Make one small change first, and then see how it affects public hunting for a few years. 

[jblackburn]

Interesting, I was born and raised in MO and I never figured they would ever modify the season.  A few years ago I email one of the turkey biologists about an early archery season and was told that it would put too much pressure on the birds.   I think the week long archery season is a great idea and it should be the same as youth season.  Only one weekend for youth can be tough, especially if weather does not cooperate.

As far as all day hunting, I could take it or leave it.  I live in OK now and we can hunt all day and I have hunted in KS quite a bit, and only a couple of my birds have been taken in the evening.  I am not sure that all day hunting would have a great impact on harvest totals.  

It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Hooksfan]

jb,
I agree that most folks will still hunt only morning and that is when most birds will be killed.  I guess I just don't like being told that I can't go in the evening if I wanted to even on private property.  Also, being a parent that shares custody, it would increase the opportunity to take my kids after school on the afternoon visitations I have during the week.
And, I would also be able to take a lot of my students who have an interest in hunting.

[coyotetrpr]

This is all news to me. I have not recieved this questionaire in the mail. For what it is worth I would be elated to have the opportunity to hunt all day. As for the early archery season, it would be cool if it was at the same time as youth season. I do agree with Hooksfan that bowhunters don't need an early season, but I would participate just for an extra week to hunt.

[Punisher]

IMO opinion I see know reason why archery hunters should be granted an early season.  The counties I hunt in Kentucky are already high pressure counties (Butler, Logan, and Ohio) and I would see no reason to add an early week of season for the minority group of hunters.  If a person wants to use archery equipment use it during the 2-3 weeks of the regular season that everyone else is allowed.  So if I lived in Missouri I would have to say no this proposal because I do not see it benefit the hunters in that state as a whole.  In regards to the all day hunting, in Kentucky we use to have to quit at either noon or 1 pm, I can't recall.  I will say this, I thought the hunting was better before we went to all day hunting by allowing the turkeys to do their thing in the evening unpressured.  Granted, I have killed several turkeys in the evening but I still liked it betters when Kentucky did not have all day hunting.  It seems like the gobbling activity went south and has steadily got worse every since the all day hunting took effect.  Just my thoughts.

[budtripp]

I really don't know why anyone would think an early archery season would hurt our population, how many turkey hunters do you actually know of that bowhunt anyway( (I'm the only one of any of my friends aquaintances that I even know of that does bowhunt them), and how many of them are as successful as the gun hunters? Not many. Also look at Nebraska and Kansas, both states have early archery seasons and have had them for awhile. Both states are now the "go to" turkey states that Missouri once was before we fell from grace. Again, the bowhunters don't seem to have much of an impact on populations. Just my thoughts. Oh, and I agree, the youth season should be MUCH longer than just a single measly weekend.

[Turkey Beard]

I'm in favor of all-day hunting primarily because that would allow kids to get into the turkey woods and not have to miss school.  When I was raising my kids, it was a treat to get them into the woods (this was before youth season) on Opening Day and they got to miss up to an hour of class.  If we want to grow the sport, we need to get the kids involved.

That being said, I don't think that the kids need a whole week of youth season.  If you face reality, I'm sure that you know that a lot of the birds killed during "youth season" are actually killed by daddy and tagged by the 6 year old that can't even hold a shotgun up.  Give them a week and I'm not sure how many will actually be able to take advantage of the lengthened youth season unless all day hunting is allowed.

Bow season?  Yes, absolutely.  Wouldn't  bother me if the bow season was just the weekend of youth season.  Maybe a couple of days prior to the regular season.  It wouldn't even have to be a whole week.  I tried bowhunting turkeys this past spring for the first time and I lasted until I heard a LOT of gobbling way off from where I'd placed my blind.  Back to the truck, ditch the bow, grab the shotgun and GO.  With a designated bow season I'd be more patient and perhaps accomplish what I consider to be a great hunting challenge.

Another question on the questionnaire involves crossbow hunting.  I don't really have an opinion on crossbows.

One place that I have to express concern is why are we doing this now when we've had something like 5 years in a row with bad hatches.  I believe that the 2011 hatch was up, but our population statewide is still down.

One point that I have to respectfully disagree with Hooksfan on is his opinion of the MDC.  That 1/8 tax is what allows the department to be run by biologists instead of state-appointed flunkies (political appointees).  As my uncle from Colorado, who is very involved with their wildlife programs, says, "The MDC is the envy of every other wildlife department in the nation because it's not run by politicians."  That sales tax is specifically designated for wildlife and comes up for a vote of the public periodically.  It's not appropriated from any other source.

[barry]

What is the reasoning behind the "one bird a week" law?
Just curious

[Hooksfan]

What is the reasoning behind the "one bird a week" law?
Just curious

That's a million dollar question right there.  You will get a range of answers that generally point towards reducing the pressure of the birds for the first week and the 1 pm closure was to allow nesting hens to be undisturbed and allow the mushroom hunters safer access to the woods in the evening--I guess MDC programs "their" nesting turkey hens to be able to differentiate between turkey hunters and mushroom hunters and are not disturbed by the mushroom hunters.
A lot of folks believe  it is also done to encourage non-residents to come during the second week when they can kill two birds, and allow the residents to have the first shot at them.
Turkey beard and I will have to respectfully disagree on the level of politics and control at play here.  Of course Missouri is the envy of every other state agency--They all wish they had the money Missouri does.  But....with that money comes a more powerful agency that will exercise more control that is just as indebted to the non hunting bird watching community as they are to the hunting folks because their revenue comes not only from hunting and fishing permits, but from the general public through the 1/8 cent sales tax.

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

I hope you guys give the youth an opportunity to hunt for a week.

They should have every chance to fill a tag and a week allows them a greater chance of doing so in the event the poor weather or conflicting schedules prevent them from hunting on one particular designated weekend.

 I was responsible for multiple 8 year olds and 10 year olds pulling the trigger this spring.  It can be done with relative ease if the necessary preparation is put into the hunt. I also tend to have a higher level of faith in humanity than to believe that a lot of dad's are wacking birds on youth day.

Only allowed to kill one bird in mo the first week?  What a baseless, unsubstantiated, and arbitrary regulation.

[jblackburn]

I think getting youth in the woods in the afternoon after school is the best reason for all day hunting, no arguments here. 

VaTurk, currently youth in MO get one weekend as youth season to themselves. 

I really don't know about why the one bird for the first week came about.  I think it came about when the season was only two weeks long and there were not many birds (1980s and early 90s).  It is just one of those regs that has stuck around that we just had to deal with.  I could see the rule staying around if it was a public land only rule.  Being told you can only take one during the first week on the family farm is very annoying.

[SinGin]

All day hunting in Missouri, it's about time. this way I can justify taking a whole day off from work. Also we have all had days when you get up to hunt in the morning and thunderstorms are rolling through for most of the day. I hope the MDC sends me one of these questionnaires

[stinkpickle]

...I really don't know about why the one bird for the first week came about.  I think it came about when the season was only two weeks long and there were not many birds (1980s and early 90s)...

Indeed.  I think it's just held over from the old two-week season when we could only shoot one bird during the first week and one during the second.  They probably held onto the first week rule just to lighten pressure on public ground.

[6x6 bull]

I for one have been telling anyone that would listen that a separate archery season would be most welcome here in MO. The public lands that I hunt are so overcrowded during the gun season that it has almost become scary to be in the woods. The ability to hunt all day would also help when you only get to hunt on your two days off in a week.It would double the amount of time that you could spend in the woods.