A picture to support OG's NO LONG SHOTS

[savduck]

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 Words. This is a 20 ga, HEVI 13 #7 pattern at 40 yards. It is a measured 40. This was my 10 the shot of the day. I was tired, and pulled my shot about 3 inches right. My POI was off by 3 inches. If I would have pulled it another inch, I was dealing with a wounded bird even with a dense 10 ring pattern. This goes to show you how much human error comes into play even with a dense pattern  at longer distances and why this is a hot topic.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

That is why you need a good 20" pattern. 

[Javi]

Agree!!

[savduck]

That is why you need a good 20" pattern. 

100% agree, I think this pattern is to tight, but thats not the point of the thread.

[fountain2]

just dont shooot 10 times at a turkey and hold steady....

[Longshanks]

Sometimes a picture is worth a 1000 Words. This is a 20 ga, HEVI 13 #7 pattern at 40 yards. It is a measured 40. This was my 10 th shot of the day. I was tired, and pulled my shot about 3 inches right. My POI was off by 3 inches. If I would have pulled it another inch, I was dealing with a wounded bird even with a great pattern. This goes to show you how much human error comes into play even with a great pattern and why this is a hot topic.




Yup, Im turning 150's-170's with my 20 guages and the patterns are very tight.  I squeeze the trigger like im shooting a rifle and im able to stay on. My 20 guages are wicked at 30yds. My 12 guages that turn high numbers are super tight within 30yds.  They turn killer 20" patterns at 40 but regardless they are super tight up close.  I shot a turkey at 12-15yds last year and the pattern was about the size of a softball. The guns i shoot folks would have a problem with if "snatching" on the trigger is a bad habit for them. Guess thats why my dad started me out with a MOD and then a FULL. I have progressed to where i am but sure didn't start there and dont recommend it to novice hunters.

[joker]

Do you know what the difference is between a 20ga and a 12ga? More Shot! which means larger pattern and more wiggle room. Just ask anyone who shoots sub gages in trap, skeet or sporting clays. You can make all the same shots that the 12ga guys can but with less wiggle room. I would not consider 40 yds to long of a shot with that gun, shell, choke. The turkey would still be dead. Yes, if you would have pulled it off a little more it wouldn't have been. But the same could have been said for a 15yd shot. How much wiggle room do you think you have at 15yds with that combo? The edge of the pattern may be at 5" @40yds it may be 2" @ 15yds. Does this mean not to shoot a 20ga? Not to shoot over 35yds? not to shoot under 20yds? No, It should meen know your guns abilities, your abilities, and the situation at hand. Know the limitations. Or we call all shoot 10 gages with 2 1/2 oz of shot, spreader choke and limit our shots to 25yds.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

That is why you need a good 20" pattern.  

100% agree, I think this pattern is to tight, but thats not the point of the thread.

I know what your saying, but again if the 20" pattern was there you would have no need to make this thread in the first place.  Don't mean that smart either.  But your 20" pattern looks very weak.  If it was what it should be, that bird would easily still be just as dead.

[wmahunter]

Sav, either I don't understand your point or I don't agree with it if I understand it correctly.  I don't see where you shooting to the right on that target had anything to do with how far it was.

Fact is, with a tight pattern there is no wiggle room no matter how far or near the shot. 

Your maximum distance should be determined by your pattern testing and at what range your gun falls below the desired hit density. 

Whether or not you kill the bird is determined by your shooting ability at ANY range within that acceptable distance. 

[goblr77]

If you pull a shot you will miss or wound one up close too.

[bawana]

Sav, either I don't understand your point or I don't agree with it if I understand it correctly.  I don't see where you shooting to the right on that target had anything to do with how far it was.

Fact is, with a tight pattern there is no wiggle room no matter how far or near the shot. 

Your maximum distance should be determined by your pattern testing and at what range your gun falls below the desired hit density. 

Whether or not you kill the bird is determined by your shooting ability at ANY range within that acceptable distance. 

X2

[surehuntsalot]

I understand what you are talking about... savduck

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

And don't get me wrong, I do see your point.  But what I was saying is that if we all pattern our guns to where they shoot good 10" for a main core kill pattern and still have a very good 20" kill pattern then this gives us more wiggle room.  This is why I try to tell everyone to pattern any load in their gun to see how well they pattern that way you know how it's going to perform come turkey season.  I know sometimes people say shooting paper and what kind of pattern is needed to kill a turkey are 2 different things, and some think there is such a thing as overdoing it.  But I like to think of it as I know I have done my homework ahead of time and know that I am throwing the best possible 10" and 20" pattern I can possibly throw when the moment of truth arises.  That way if I do make a slight shooting error, I'm still covered with plenty of insurance so to speak.

[wmahunter]

IF the thread title were "A picture to support NO SUPER TIGHT PATTERNS" then I could understand, BUT the picture and discussion do not show an issue with "LONG SHOTS". 

I don't agree with long shots either (farther than your gun/load/pattern will cleanly kill) but the picture and story here simply do not support that argument IMO....he has a very good killing pattern in the picture...just off on the POI which has nothing to do with distance.

Hevi, I agree with you that a big dense pattern is better than a small dense pattern however this still has nothing to do with distance....only accuracy.

[savduck]

I think all you guys get it, but are over thinking what I put up.

This is an experimental pattern in my new 20 ga gun. Im trying to find a pattern that has a good core 10 and 20. This pattern does not have that and is to tight, and I totally agree about the points brought up about having a 20 yard pattern. There are however a bunch of guys shooting this type of pattern and letting it rip at longer distances. This is more for the new guys getting into hunting.

My whole point in the thread was to show that a gun that is sighted in dead on, can, due to human error at 40 or longer yardages, cripple birds. Thats it nothing more.