"Call shy" and "Educated" - Fact or Fiction?

[redleg06]

I made this post in th General Forum, but will reply here as well.
MS !!
Got in tight this am with him gobbling like crazy!
75 yards out, I say nothing.  He pitches dow at 40 to 45 yards slight to my right.  He is walking with a purpose, but not spooked.  He goes behind some large pines and I ease my gun into position.  I find him in the scope, make a a 3-4 not soft yelp to stop him for the shot, and he is gone!!!       
BEEP BEEP!!!! 
Road Runner Style!!!    
But he's not call shy?  He's just not in the mood!!!   

I read that post in the general forum and wanted to find out more about yall's wild turkey over there in that area. I've hunted other public/ pressured areas and seen birds shutdown gobbling activity because of hunters crowding and spooking them as they bumble around in the woods or unknowingly bump them while walking around calling and making noise, but never seen one just flat out panic over a turkey call... or at least not one that could be recognized as a turkey call. But then again, I've never hunted these Mississippi birds you speak of...

In mississippi, the birds arent scared or "call shy" of gobbler's vocalizations (gobbling) but are deathly afraid if they hear a hen (even the softest 3-4 note yelp)?

Are they call shy of other turkey talking to each other or can they just tell the difference between a hunter calling to them verses a real hen?

[K9Doc]

It could be the same anywhere i think.  I am hunting Noxubee National Wildlife Regufe, located only 15 minutes from Starkville, MS and Mississippi State University.
Lots of college guys hit this area very hard all season.  People in MS grow up hunting and fishing, more so than most states.  It's in their heritage and in their blood!!!
This place really gets a lot of pressure year after year.  I dont think this bird would have been difficult to kill the first day or two.  Now however, he has likely been called to , shot at, and bumped off the limb, ect..  more than once.  He wants to see a hen and she better not be talking a whole lot.  He's not smart, he's just got very good survival instincts.
Turkey's Brain:
I am in the tree gobbling.  No hens calling and nothing comes under my tree.  I fly down and suddenly she yelps at me?  Not cluck or purr.  Yelps!!  He knew something was wrong cause it probably happen a week or less ago.
I should have said nothing or only clucked sofltly.
He is conditioned to survive!!!

[GobbleNut]

Hindsight is 20/20.   My bet is that no matter what turkey sounds you made at that bird, you would have seen the very same reaction from him.  That is why he is still around!  But that is why we keep hunting them.  Next time you try something different and hope that it works....

               

[redleg06]

It could be the same anywhere i think.  I am hunting Noxubee National Wildlife Regufe, located only 15 minutes from Starkville, MS and Mississippi State University.
Lots of college guys hit this area very hard all season.  People in MS grow up hunting and fishing, more so than most states.  It's in their heritage and in their blood!!!
This place really gets a lot of pressure year after year.  I dont think this bird would have been difficult to kill the first day or two.  Now however, he has likely been called to , shot at, and bumped off the limb, ect..  more than once.  He wants to see a hen and she better not be talking a whole lot.  He's not smart, he's just got very good survival instincts.
Turkey's Brain:
I am in the tree gobbling.  No hens calling and nothing comes under my tree.  I fly down and suddenly she yelps at me?  Not cluck or purr.  Yelps!!  He knew something was wrong cause it probably happen a week or less ago.
I should have said nothing or only clucked sofltly.
He is conditioned to survive!!!

I just moved to Tuscaloosa this year so I can relate to the college crowd.  

That being said,  (and this is just my personal opinion) I just dont buy the "call shy" theory but I do think increased human presence will spook the birds enough to slow down gobbling activity and make them act  more spooky than they would have been otherwise....depending on the amount of pressure or activity in the area, it could drastically change how they act if they are bumped and spooked day after day all season long.

I've hunted public and private in my home state of Texas for years and I got the pleasure of experiencing an opening day/weekend here in Bama for the first time.  

True Story from the opener in Bama this year (public land)....yall tell me what happened:

I hear a bird gobbling and realize he's roosted fairly close (about 100-150 yds) to a well traveled road and there are a number of hunters within ear shot. This bird is one of only two that I hear gobbling and I'm sure that he'll have other hunters surrounding him shortly so I try to get in a position behind him and call him away from the road because he is roosted at the end of a ridge point where the road makes a "U" shape.  The bird flys down and is slowly working my way when i start hearing other "hens" moving in from different direction.  He is gobbling, but not much and I'm not calling much (he probably gobbled twice in the tree and another time or two once he hit the ground).  About this time I see a truck driving on the road down around the "U" in the road and I hear him pull over and get out on the gravel road and then I hear a sound that was either a crow call or a Caribou in Distress....not sure which, but of course, the turkey sounds off to it.  It was such a unique and terrifying sound that I almost shock gobbled too....   The next sound is this guy shuffling around and shutting his door. The woods were wide open and you could hear a pin drop out there and I have no doubt the turkey could see what was going on, to some extent.   Anyhow, I'm assuming the guy starts moving in to the woods cause I stopped hearing gravel and then I hear him let loose with some more interesting sounds from his box call.... This time he gets no response.  I never heard or saw that turkey the rest of the morning or until I had to be out of the woods at 1p.m.

Was this turkey "call shy" or was he "idiot that made godawful noises from the road/truck then bumbled into the woods" shy ?  


I bet if we had the opportunity to stop and ask that guy what happened, he'd tell us about how that bird was just a smart old call shy gobbler or that he was just educated from year's of folks calling to him.

K9doc, that story isnt a shot at you so I hope you dont take it that way or comparing you're situation to the one I just gave.  I just feel like, most of the time, when turkey arent responding to calls or are acting spooky while calling is going on, it's not because they associate turkey calls with humans/danger. They may be with real hens or maybe they saw something they didnt like, maybe the pressure in general has them boogered up, maybe the caller isnt making sounds that resemble a turkey, etc etc etc.  I have seen subordinate toms run the other direction from strutting toms because they dont want to get whooped. If you gobbled at that type of turkey or maybe even made a sound like a gobbler yelp, who know's how it would react. There's just any number of reasons why turkey do what they do and I think very few times, are these birds reasoning their way to a decision....like being call shy and associating humans with turkey calling.

They'd have a hell of a time breeding if every gobbler in the area flipped out and ran away like a scalded ape at the sound of another turkey in the woods.  If that were the case, how would the real hens communicate with the gobblers?  Are they keen on this call shy stuff too and just have an understanding that if they want to find them a old longbeard to breed with, the only way to do it is ONE cluck, maybe a quiet purr (but not a long one ),  and no yelping or other vocalizations between shooting light (better check the old wrist watch) on March 15 and Sunset on May 1?  

No one get your panties in a wad over this, I'm just having fun with this

[RemingtonRules]

I have called up what I believe to be the same gobblers that were shot at by others the weekend prior to my encounter.  They both still came to the call, would gobble in answer to the call, but would not break the 60 yard mark and circled my position.  These occasions were years appart in separate states but both Eastern varieties.  I think they learned something but I never got the chance to ask them.  I can still see those birds today.  I can only hope they died a slow death for the torment they caused me all these years.

[redleg06]

Don't assume that I think every tom that gets sprayed suddenly becomes "all knowing and omnipotent". Far from it. All I am saying is the bumping a tom and the times he survives getting shot at can in no way make him easier to kill. Who knows what truely goes on in that pecan sized brain. It's my opinion they usually just get sharper with age and experience.

It's hard to disagree with a man that uses words I cant even begin to pronounce

I do agree that the pressure of getting bumped repeatedly does affect how turkey act. My problem with it is that I just dont believe they are intellegent enough to associate calling with humans and avoid calling. 

In other words, a turkey who has been bumped or even shot at 3 days in a row is likely going to be more "on edge" than one that has never seen a human before. The pressured bird is more likely to be less responsive to calling because he's wary of humans being in the woods, but that doesnt mean he's used a logical thought process to decide that humans are responsible for turkey sounds and that he should then avoid turkey sounds.

I dont believe that a hunter that is a good caller is scaring turkey by his calling...now, he may bump the bird when he walks in to set up on him and that turkey is, all the sudden, much less likely to come to the call than he would have been if he hadnt just been bumped. I think this is what happens a lot of times and gives the impression of "call shy". Guys bumble around the forest making racket and not really looking where they are going and they bump a lot of turkey that they never had any idea where in the area.  Then they wonder why they cant get one to answer them when they set up or one acts spooky when they do call and all the sudden you have reports of a "call shy gobbler" when all you really have is a situation where the bird saw you before you knew he was in the area and he didnt come in as a result.

[Frankinthelaurels]

I think that both are true. I've been chasing gobblers for 45 years and have hunted in 17 states. There's no question to me that they can become "educated".. I don't think anyone who has spent enough time chasin' em' would argue that or that they don't  become call-shy in a hurry on public or open land that gets lots of people about everyday of the season. Those two terms "call shy and educated" are caused by hunting pressure in my opinion. On private land things can be completely different and that land just might be across a road from a pressured area and gobbling over there is non-stop all season long. I've killed lots of old long spurred toms by hunting close to those private clubs and lands, calls go across the lines with no problem and during that last couple of weeks when the hens are sitting they sometimes walk off their safe area in search of hens. I've seen some that even know the sound of certain calls and by switching calls causes them to come right in. I remember one who learned to roost at the head of a tram road/field meeting..if you walked on that road no matter what time off night you'd chase him off the roost, even hours before sunrise, he learned the sound of humans walking...my son killed him by walking in the woods and going around to the other side. So, I think both are true, but caused only by hunter pressure.

[paboxcall]

If a bird becomes call shy, no one would ever kill a bird on public ground after opening day.

[paboxcall]

Sure you can. I do every year. Those very same toms that the run and gunners can't raise a gobble from with loud aggresive cutts from the same old spot they hammered from the week before, and the week before, and the week before. It's all about angles and less about complaining about toms "that don't act right".

You missed my point.

If turkeys can become "educated (or conditioned)," you are giving them a lot of credit for a pea sized brain.  

If a turkey can become educated, he sure has a short memory.  Why then would jakes messed with by hunters and preseason callers on public ground suddenly become our famous, reckless, loud mouth two year olds next year?  And why would any so-called learned loud mouth two year old on public ground, who probably got shot at, bumped, and spooked a hundred times ever get killed as a three or four year old?

Did they forget what they learned last year?

[CT Spur Collector]

Good post.  " call shy" and  "educated" means memory to me. If a gobbler or any turkey for that matter had a memory, they'd never fly down in season. Pressured birds just become more and more wary, it's their nature. Did you ever break up a young flock in the fall, kill one, scatter them and call them all in again for your partner? I have, think about it. Whatever, good conversation.