"Call shy" and "Educated" - Fact or Fiction?

[redleg06]

"Call Shy" and "Educated" seems to be something that gets brought up pretty regularly amongst turkey hunters and I just wanted to hear some opinions on birds being call shy and "educated".

I think I must be in the minority here, but I wonder if a bird can get "educated" enough to become truly call shy. My take on it is that there are naturally going to be birds that are more cautious than others... and not because they are "educated" by some kind of learned behavior from humans.  Just like some bucks are more aggressive and dominant, so are some turkey and the more aggressive/reckless/vocal  ones get culled out (killed by hunters) much more easily so by the end of the season, naturally, you got a lower % of turkey running around who are over-eager to race in to your call and what you're left with is more of the birds that were naturally cautious to begin with.

In other words, I believe that FOR THE MOST PART the reason we think its easier to kill 2 year olds than  3 year olds has less to do with the amount of "education" they recieve from that extra year of age and more to do with the fact that the easy birds get knocked off pretty quick in a heavily hunted area so the tight lipped birds are more likely to make it to the next year.

What say the old gobbler brain trust?

[BERN]

I think it is true, but for different reasons than most people think. I think they get educated if they come in to a call several times and never see a hen. They just give up and expect a hen to come to them.

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[BERN]

I think it is true, but for different reasons than most people think. I think they get educated if they come in to a call several times and never see a hen. They just give up and expect a hen to come to them.

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[dirt road ninja]

I would some what agree with that. Some birds are more vocal then others, but I do believe then can be educated by humans. IF I spook turkeys off the roost a few days in a row, they move. I've spooked them out of box stands while deer hunting and the next day they stare down the box. I can also drive a tractor right thru a flock and they only run a few yards off the field or road and as soon as I pass they come right back out. When I walk up on them they run or fly until I can't see them and seldom come back that day.

Not sure how much they can be educated, but truly think they can feel a presence of danger. I would have to believe that the same could be applied to birds that have be called to a lot.


As far as older birds verses younger birds being harder to kill, I believe it has less to do with education and more to do with the older birds having the hens. I think the younger birds have been chased away from the hens and are looking for action more then the older more dominate ones.

[Trevor2]

Not sure how much they can be educated, but truly think they can feel a presence of danger. I would have to believe that the same could be applied to birds that have be called to a lot.

x2 and this is what I refer to as call shy or educated birds, maybe a bad choice of words but its what im referring to when I speak of them.

[TauntoHawk]

Pressured is a more applicable word I feel than call shy or educated.
The throaty loud mouth birds on heavily hunted ground are the first to have their neck stepped on.

[redleg06]

I would some what agree with that. Some birds are more vocal then others, but I do believe then can be educated by humans. IF I spook turkeys off the roost a few days in a row, they move. I've spooked them out of box stands while deer hunting and the next day they stare down the box. I can also drive a tractor right thru a flock and they only run a few yards off the field or road and as soon as I pass they come right back out. When I walk up on them they run or fly until I can't see them and seldom come back that day.

Not sure how much they can be educated, but truly think they can feel a presence of danger. I would have to believe that the same could be applied to birds that have be called to a lot.

I do agree that they can learn, to some extent, what does and doesnt represent a threat to them if they experience it enough times. I think your example of bumping a roost day after day is a good example. 

I think "call shy" is a little different in that I dont know how often they really associate that with humans where as bumping them off the roost by what they can clearly identify as humans a lot of times.  I dont know that a bird that you work and never get a shot at (or bump in any other way) gets call shy or learns anything from that experience because he never sees something to identify as danger to associate with a the calling and I dont feel like they are intellegent enough to piece the puzzle together and avoid calling because of education.  Now, you may have some bad callers out there that dont sound enough like a turkey to get them interested but for the most part, i think it's just a turkey being a turkey.  I've seen plenty of real hens calling from one side of a field to a gobbler on the other side and the gobbler, at that point in time, not be interested for whatever reason.... stage of the breeding cycle, territorial issues/afraid of a more dominant gobbler in the area, has hens with him already etc.  Because he's in a field, I can see the lack of response, even to a real hen, but if you couldnt see him and it was a person doing the calling instead, there's plenty of guys ready to write that lack of response off to being "call shy" or "educated"  and i dont think that has anything to do with it in most cases.

[guesswho]

Call shy and educated.  Fiction, also known as excuses. 

[Footballer]

As long as your calling is natural, I don't believe turkeys are per se "call shy." I think it is merely a conclusion that a lot of people jump to without knowing the circumstances.

In other words, sounding like a hen is only one phase of turkey calling. I don't believe this is the phase that makes gobblers wary. I think what makes them wary is the location of the calling, progression of the season, lack of visual confirmation, and unrealistic decoy movement just to name a few.

For example, you are setup in the woods and calling at a gobbler. He responds and seems to be moving closer to you. And, as we've all experienced, he hangs up either out of sight or out of gun range. There could be several reasons for this. The primary reason is biological- the hen is supposed to come to him. At this point, he knows the hen is aware of his presence. If she is "receptive" then she would go to him. If she doesn't show, then he likely realizes he is wasting his time and moves on to find another hen willing to play the game. We do the same thing- if we know a gobbler has hens and isn't interested in our calling, we know we are wasting our time calling to him despite the fact that he gobbles every time we call.

It's similar to deer hunting. Mature bucks are only after does in estrous. A mature buck could care less about an unreceptive doe that looks pretty standing in a field. Whereas younger bucks will be out pesturing her, the older bucks keep cruising until they find one ready to breed.  

With turkey hunting, just because a hen yelps or cutts doesn't mean she is willing to breed. The same yelping and cutting will get a gobbler's attention, but if she doesn't come to him, why should he search her out and pesture her when he knows he is unlikely to "get any." He's better off moving to the next hen.

The scenario is the same evern if he sees your lone hen decoy. If he knows she can see him strutting, but doesn't act like she's interested, why try to win her over when there are plenty of hens ready and waiting?

This explains a common biological occurence in which gobblers are commonly perceived to be call shy.

However, I do believe that there are several scenarios that do put a gobbler on notice, but not because of your actual calling. All turkeys have two things in common: they are constantly moving, and they make a lot of noise scratching for food in the woods. The only exception to this general rule is during the incubation period.

In simpler terms, it is very unlikely that a hen will stand in place for an extended period and without scratching in the leaves. Sometimes gobblers hang up not because they expect the hen to come to them, but because they don't hear the usual commotion that is associated with hen talk. This is merely a theory, but I have overcome several hung up gobblers by simply raking leaves to sound like a scratching hen.

Another factor in the equation is simply the mood of the gobbler. He may not want to put in the extra effort to seek you out.

In short, I don't believe it is the fact that you sound like a hen that makes them wary. I have a hard time believing that gobblers know the difference between a real hen and a turkey call (with some exceptions pertaining to the user and where he is familiar with certain hens). I believe more commonly than not, it's the circumstances surrounding your calling that tips your hand- not simply the calling itself.

[bonemonger]

i dont believe they are call shy so much as human shy. i think that some birds have the ability to avoid humans from contact with them, seeing a hunter move, being shot at, and called to with the same type call day after day. i also think they are just so moody that on the right day they will run you over after not responding on the previous day.

[deerhunt1988]

I have encountered several birds on hard hunted public land that will turn the other way as soon as you let loose a series of yelps.  They will continue gobbling, but turn completely away from you and walk off. If this is considered call shy, then yes, I'd say there are call shy birds.

But on the same note, those birds can be killed by calling...Tone it down, just cluck/purr/scratch, no yelps. I can never recall turning a turkey by just clucking or purring. So technically that bird may just be shy to certain vocalizations that it hears all the time from other hunters....

However, I have went in on some mid-day/afternoon hunts on these same birds and had them come right in, acting completely different than they did first thing that morning. I guess I feel apt to call it "conditioning". They hear so many turkey calls from other hunters in the morning, but rarely hear it any other time of day...A "call shy" bird can be made to look like a fool if you catch him at the right time.

[hoyt]

I've done a lot of hunting on open public land that is as pressured as it gets. I know that towards the end of the season on one place hearing a bird gobble is rare and they don't get all killed out cause I would still see plenty of fresh strutting signs on the sandy roads every day.

Another place as the season goes on, they would still gobble good early morning off the roost, but pay absolutely no attention to a call. They wouldn't gobble back at my calling, but just keep gobbling as they were. Like if the only way they were going to do business is for you to come to them. Course there's always an occasional hot gobbler that sat up on a limb all night long thinking about it that will come in like it's the first day.

[AndyH]

Call shy and educated.  Fiction, also known as excuses. 

X2

[guesswho]

A lot of what people hear and see is directly related to the different phases of the breeding cycle, then interpreted as call shy, educated, unkillable ect.     Most people I've hunted with approach all phases of the season the same way, in reality a different calling tactic might be needed.   The more successful people I've hunted with seem to understand this.   I guess for some people it's just easier to come up with excuses than it is to figure out whats really going on.

[Shotgun]

A lot of what people hear and see is directly related to the different phases of the breeding cycle, then interpreted as call shy, educated, unkillable ect.     Most people I've hunted with approach all phases of the season the same way, in reality a different calling tactic might be needed.   The more successful people I've hunted with seem to understand this.   I guess for some people it's just easier to come up with excuses than it is to figure out whats really going on.

If he doesnt come to my squeeling hen call.  He is unkillable.  I dont care what you say.