I see that Arkansas eliminated the Jake out the bag limit.

[jperrotti]

How can you determine the quality of someone's hunt? By stat's on a turkey.

I don't say screw the future I say reduce the limit to 1. Do not try and tell me my hunting expierence was inferior because the turkey I killed was not old enough.

To me the breeding population arguement is bogus unless you can tell that hens are going unbred due to the lack of male birds.

[knightrider]

By eleminating the Jake from the bag limit you are increasing carry over of males to the next year.  Has nothing to do with breeding or hens being bred.  It also has nothing to do with trophy management.  It has to do with allowing fewer turkeys to be shot.  Where I hunt in AR it takses nothing to kill a jake.  They come running.  The 2 yo and older birds are a challange.  THe kids 15 and under can still kill a jake.  The bearded hens being allowed has more to do (assumption) with eliminating the mistaking a hen for a gobbler and becoming an outlaw.  In louisiana we have decent populations.  Once the hens are bred, the males are expendable (in the words of our elustrious former Turkey Study Leader) although they keep moving it back earlier and earlier.  It actually ends now when it should be starting.  OUr turkeys may end up declining if we get bad hatches and dont correct our season.

Thank you.  Some people can't see the forest for the trees.  Kill em all now, screw the future!

killing a jake instead of a gobbler is screwing the future

[cuttinAR]

My last statement on this....if you'd like to learn more about it please come to AR and you can find out what overharvesting does to your turkey population.  

Shorter, later seasons have stabilized our harvest after seven years of decline.  Eliminating jakes increases available gobblers for the next year.  We have some areas that if you kill the gobbler out of the breeding flock, there is not another to fill that spot.  Result is hens get bred later because it takes time for the breeding to occur due to lack of said gobblers.  Later hatches equal poor poult raising conditions and survival.  INCREASING GOBBLER CARRYOVER IS THE MAIN GOAL OF THIS REGULATION.

The #1 priority of our game & fish commission should be to manage the resource, not to please the masses. Bottom line. The short term and long term goals are set towards expanding our current population, not simply maintaining what we have.  Fortunately for AR turkey hunters, most of us understand the issue and are on board with the changes.  

There is plenty of published material by biologists not just from AR about the subject.  I suggest you do some reading before you jump to conclusions.  

[mason0366]

Close The season for a year then lower bag limit.

[PANYHunter]

Close The season for a year then lower bag limit.

Lowering the bag limit to 1 tom would work.  It would probably cut down on the jake harvest because people wouldn't use their 1 tag on a jake.

[BoWhoop]

We have some areas that if you kill the gobbler out of the breeding flock, there is not another to fill that spot.  Result is hens get bred later because it takes time for the breeding to occur due to lack of said gobblers.  Later hatches equal poor poult raising conditions and survival.

If that is the case, then your season is set too early.  The hens should be bred before the season, and even if the only gobbler in the area was killed,  they will still have fertile eggs.  Even if their nest gets ruined, they still have enough fertilized eggs to lay again.

Maybe moving the season back a bit would help...

[HogBiologist]

The season is fine where it is.  It is far enough back and short enought to stop over harvest and allow breeding.  BUT, the years of bad hatches have reduced the population.  If you can protect the jakes and increase populations, why reduce the bag limit.  It is much easier to work with the public and use sound management, rather than tick off the public and get a mutany.  The hunters are OK with eliminating the jake.  Let them have their cake and eat it to. 

[sugarray]

The season is fine where it is.  It is far enough back and short enought to stop over harvest and allow breeding.  BUT, the years of bad hatches have reduced the population.  If you can protect the jakes and increase populations, why reduce the bag limit.  It is much easier to work with the public and use sound management, rather than tick off the public and get a mutany.  The hunters are OK with eliminating the jake.  Let them have their cake and eat it to. 

[deerhunt1988]

How can you determine the quality of someone's hunt? By stat's on a turkey.

I don't say screw the future I say reduce the limit to 1. Do not try and tell me my hunting expierence was inferior because the turkey I killed was not old enough.

To me the breeding population arguement is bogus unless you can tell that hens are going unbred due to the lack of male birds.

Well the majority of hunters want to hear more gobbling. More 2 year olds = more gobbling.

If you want to kill those suicidal teen-aged turkey, go right ahead.

[shootumindaface]

How can you determine the quality of someone's hunt? By stat's on a turkey.

I don't say screw the future I say reduce the limit to 1. Do not try and tell me my hunting expierence was inferior because the turkey I killed was not old enough.

To me the breeding population arguement is bogus unless you can tell that hens are going unbred due to the lack of male birds.

Well the majority of hunters want to hear more gobbling. More 2 year olds = more gobbling.

If you want to kill those suicidal teen-aged turkey, go right ahead.

And we are back to the common fight in deer hunting

[guesswho]

Yep!

[HogBiologist]

  And we are back to the common fight in deer hunting

No this is different in Arkansas.  this is not about killing spikes vs killing adult deer.  This is about letting non mature birds carry over to allow the population numbers to recover.  The public was offered several options and that is what the majority of hunters wanted to do.  Not shooting spikes is trying to provide trophy deer for the future.  Not allowing jakes in this scenerio is to boost the number of adults in the population.  IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TROPHY MANAGEMENT.  This is apples and oranges with the Spike issue.  Not shooting jakes was an option presented to the public.  The majority chose to do it.  It was not whimsically or randomly thrown in the mix.  I know alot of people dont understand why Biologists do things.  Trust me there is almost always a biologically sound reason for doing it.  Some things are trial and error (I.E. AR's which seem to work but do more harm) and some are not, like allowing immature animals to be protected to move into the breeding population next year.

[jperrotti]

  And we are back to the common fight in deer hunting

No this is different in Arkansas.  this is not about killing spikes vs killing adult deer.  This is about letting non mature birds carry over to allow the population numbers to recover.  The public was offered several options and that is what the majority of hunters wanted to do.  Not shooting spikes is trying to provide trophy deer for the future.  Not allowing jakes in this scenerio is to boost the number of adults in the population.  IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TROPHY MANAGEMENT.  This is apples and oranges with the Spike issue.  Not shooting jakes was an option presented to the public.  The majority chose to do it.  It was not whimsically or randomly thrown in the mix.  I know alot of people dont understand why Biologists do things.  Trust me there is almost always a biologically sound reason for doing it.  Some things are trial and error (I.E. AR's which seem to work but do more harm) and some are not, like allowing immature animals to be protected to move into the breeding population next year.

So after the population recovers will this law be removed?

[HogBiologist]

J. I dont know.  I dont work for AGFC.  I wish I did.  I am actually looking for a job up there. It will be there determination as to what to do.

[guesswho]

The public was offered several options and that is what the majority of hunters wanted to do.  Not shooting jakes was an option presented to the public.  The majority chose to do it.  It was not whimsically or randomly thrown in the mix.

I don't care one way or the other, and don't know enough about it to make an argument one way or the other.  But I'm not sure letting the majority of "hunters" who are not educated in this field make the decision is the right thing to do.   Looks to me like the majority of people educated along this line would be a better choice for decision making.   Because of the majority of uneducated people look what we now have as a President.