I see that Arkansas eliminated the Jake out the bag limit.

[cuttinAR]

I hope this doesn't become a popular trend among other states. I hate what deer hunting has become, and I hope to God that turkey hunting doesn't start down that trail. In many areas deer hunting has become an elitist sport that is all about the biggest and best, not the experience, and that is a shame IMO. New hunters are looked down on if they shoot anything less than a record book buck, and I would hate for that to become the way of turkey hunting too. If a new hunter wants to shoot a jake and it makes him happy, what is wrong with that? I know a few people who have hunted for years and years and still get a great rush from the shooting of a jake, why should that be taken away from them. I challenge anyone here to come up with a good reason why someone should not be allowed to harvest a jake if that gets them excited. FWIW, I don't shoot jakes, but I have no problem with those who do. I would much rather see someone shoot a jake and be super pumped about it, than see someone shoot a mature tom and be dissapointed because it is "only a two year old".

AGAIN, this isn't about only killing "trophy" turkeys.  It is about helping gobbler carryover and allow more hens to be bred.  Here in AR in a typical year, 20% or so of the harvest is jakes.  At present harvest levels, that 2000 jakes that at least have the chance to make it to the next year as a two-year old breeding gobbler.

The youth hunt that takes place the weekend before the regular season opener does allow jake harvest for the youngsters.

[turkey slayer]

I hope Louisiana doesn't follow. I have enough trouble trying to tell if a deer is 2.5 or 3.5. Don't feel like having to analyze turkeys too before I shoot. Trophies are in the eye of the hunter. Not what the wildlife and fisheries say is a trophy.

I agree that a trophy is in the eye of the beholder, but it's not tough to tell if you have a jake in front of you or not.  

First clue- full gobble...probably an adult gobbler, this isn't always the case but I'd guess at least 90% of the time.  
2nd clue- Beard that is 6+ inches, that is pretty obvious.  Almost every adult gobbler has an 8" plus beard.  
3rd clue- Full fan- this is why gobblers with full fans are allowed in MS, regardless of jake or not.  You can also look at the leg color, but by clue 2 or so, I've pretty much got it figured out.

This isn't a trophy thing, just making sure that we have gobbling 2 year olds for the next year.  Anything to increase turkey numbers in Louisiana, I am for.  I don't think this is the full answer but it sure as heck won't hurt.  jperotti, don't take offense, I'm not trying to belittle you, just respectfully disagreeing and explaining why.

well said honker

[turkey slayer]

i dont agree with it from real management practices, but i hope it helps . i personally dont shoot jakes but it sure does light up the eyes of any young or beginner to take a jake.some of my most memorible hunts have been calling up some jakes for newbies

They still allow kids to kill a jake just not adults

[jperrotti]

I just don't see how it helps a turkey population. I seriously doubt any hens go unbred due to jakes being shot.

Most years on our property a jake will get shot, whether it be a young hunter, new hunter, or an old hunter in the mood for jake meat, I can tell you we are not hurting the gobbler population.

[cuttinAR]

I just don't see how it helps a turkey population. I seriously doubt any hens go unbred due to jakes being shot.

Most years on our property a jake will get shot, whether it be a young hunter, new hunter, or an old hunter in the mood for jake meat, I can tell you we are not hurting the gobbler population.

We don't have many gobblers left to bred the hens.  Our gobbler/hen ratio is less than 0.30.  Any of the biologists on this site can verify that is way below norm.  It leads to bad hatches and less turkeys.  This was all enhanced by the historical flooding rains we had for the past four springs.

[shootumindaface]

All I got to say its a good thing CASH doesn't hunt there or he would end up in the Pokey

[jperrotti]

I just don't see how it helps a turkey population. I seriously doubt any hens go unbred due to jakes being shot.

Most years on our property a jake will get shot, whether it be a young hunter, new hunter, or an old hunter in the mood for jake meat, I can tell you we are not hurting the gobbler population.

We don't have many gobblers left to bred the hens.  Our gobbler/hen ratio is less than 0.30.  Any of the biologists on this site can verify that is way below norm.  It leads to bad hatches and less turkeys.  This was all enhanced by the historical flooding rains we had for the past four springs.

So if your ratio is .3 you are saying that one gobbler won't be able to breed 3 hens

[shootumindaface]

Maybe instead of restricting the harvest on certain ducks such as the canvasback, bluebill and pintail, they should just eliminate the harvest of juvie drakes

[PANYHunter]

I just don't see how it helps a turkey population. I seriously doubt any hens go unbred due to jakes being shot.

Most years on our property a jake will get shot, whether it be a young hunter, new hunter, or an old hunter in the mood for jake meat, I can tell you we are not hurting the gobbler population.

We don't have many gobblers left to bred the hens.  Our gobbler/hen ratio is less than 0.30.  Any of the biologists on this site can verify that is way below norm.  It leads to bad hatches and less turkeys.  This was all enhanced by the historical flooding rains we had for the past four springs.

Maybe they should decrease the bag limit to 1 tom and not allow shooting bearded hens?

[knightrider]

i dont agree with it from real management practices, but i hope it helps . i personally dont shoot jakes but it sure does light up the eyes of any young or beginner to take a jake.some of my most memorible hunts have been calling up some jakes for newbies

They still allow kids to kill a jake just not adults

i understand this but i introduce new adults to the turkey woods not just kids that are like kids at christmas when they shoot a jake, this is just another feel good move by an agency that is not addressing the real issues at hand and are trying to throw something out there to make folks feel like they are doing something for them until mother nature turns the problem around for them. a dead male turkey is a dead male turkey no matter the age, they should be more concerned with saving their gobblers that are doing the breeding if their hatch and populations are so low, taking it down to 1 bird limit or a draw for a certain number of permits would have made much more sense if they are that concerned about the numbers, not restricting which male a hunter can shoot. jmho

[HogBiologist]

By eleminating the Jake from the bag limit you are increasing carry over of males to the next year.  Has nothing to do with breeding or hens being bred.  It also has nothing to do with trophy management.  It has to do with allowing fewer turkeys to be shot.  Where I hunt in AR it takses nothing to kill a jake.  They come running.  The 2 yo and older birds are a challange.  THe kids 15 and under can still kill a jake.  The bearded hens being allowed has more to do (assumption) with eliminating the mistaking a hen for a gobbler and becoming an outlaw.  In louisiana we have decent populations.  Once the hens are bred, the males are expendable (in the words of our elustrious former Turkey Study Leader) although they keep moving it back earlier and earlier.  It actually ends now when it should be starting.  OUr turkeys may end up declining if we get bad hatches and dont correct our season.

[jperrotti]

By eleminating the Jake from the bag limit you are increasing carry over of males to the next year.  Has nothing to do with breeding or hens being bred.  It also has nothing to do with trophy management.  It has to do with allowing fewer turkeys to be shot.  Where I hunt in AR it takses nothing to kill a jake.  They come running.  The 2 yo and older birds are a challange.  THe kids 15 and under can still kill a jake.  The bearded hens being allowed has more to do (assumption) with eliminating the mistaking a hen for a gobbler and becoming an outlaw.  In louisiana we have decent populations.  Once the hens are bred, the males are expendable (in the words of our elustrious former Turkey Study Leader) although they keep moving it back earlier and earlier.  It actually ends now when it should be starting.  OUr turkeys may end up declining if we get bad hatches and dont correct our season.

So what is the percentage of jakes being killed. How many turkeys will this save?

[deerhunt1988]

I'm not wading through 5 pages of this mess after just reading the first one..

Protecting jakes improves hunting "quality". Quality as in number of gobbling birds. Yes, we know some jakes gobble. They majority of them don't gobble like a 2 year old though. I don't see what people get out of killing a jake honestly. I have hunted several states that allow jake harvest and never once have thought about taking one.

[cuttinAR]

By eleminating the Jake from the bag limit you are increasing carry over of males to the next year.  Has nothing to do with breeding or hens being bred.  It also has nothing to do with trophy management.  It has to do with allowing fewer turkeys to be shot.  Where I hunt in AR it takses nothing to kill a jake.  They come running.  The 2 yo and older birds are a challange.  THe kids 15 and under can still kill a jake.  The bearded hens being allowed has more to do (assumption) with eliminating the mistaking a hen for a gobbler and becoming an outlaw.  In louisiana we have decent populations.  Once the hens are bred, the males are expendable (in the words of our elustrious former Turkey Study Leader) although they keep moving it back earlier and earlier.  It actually ends now when it should be starting.  OUr turkeys may end up declining if we get bad hatches and dont correct our season.

So what is the percentage of jakes being killed. How many turkeys will this save?

Based on current harvest levels 20%.  When you have a good hatch upwards of 30% of male turkeys harvested can be jakes.  That's 30% that you can guarantee will not be in next years breeding population.

[cuttinAR]

By eleminating the Jake from the bag limit you are increasing carry over of males to the next year.  Has nothing to do with breeding or hens being bred.  It also has nothing to do with trophy management.  It has to do with allowing fewer turkeys to be shot.  Where I hunt in AR it takses nothing to kill a jake.  They come running.  The 2 yo and older birds are a challange.  THe kids 15 and under can still kill a jake.  The bearded hens being allowed has more to do (assumption) with eliminating the mistaking a hen for a gobbler and becoming an outlaw.  In louisiana we have decent populations.  Once the hens are bred, the males are expendable (in the words of our elustrious former Turkey Study Leader) although they keep moving it back earlier and earlier.  It actually ends now when it should be starting.  OUr turkeys may end up declining if we get bad hatches and dont correct our season.

Thank you.  Some people can't see the forest for the trees.  Kill em all now, screw the future!