Whats causes the stone dead effect?

[turkey_slayer]

Me and a buddy have been talking about this lately.  Why do some turkeys flop and some dont?  He's shot nitros year before last  then he started shooting my hand loads with TSS last year cause they patterned way better .  He talked about how the nitros stoned them dead.  He killed 3 with my loads last year and one of them flopped that he shot at 23 yards. The other 2 were shot at longer ranges.  He didnt kill many with the nitros as he only hunted 1 year with them so maybe he just got lucky.

I think you have to break the central nervous system for that happen but even then I think some still flop due to nerves.  Here was my reasoning.  When we killed chickens we would cut there heads off with an ax.  Most would run around, well,  "like a chicken with his head cut off" lol even though we severed the CNS.  I stoned a few with lead but usually they would always flop.  I seen a bunch shot last year and seen very few flop. Most that did only flopped 2 or 3 times or just quivered. Only had 1 violent flop but he didnt take but a couple of pellets (my buddy must have pulled a little). Whats your opinion on this?

[TnTurk]

Interesting topic, like to know myself.   

[3.5inchpainfulldeath]

Interesting topic, like to know myself.   

I agree..  I've had the same experience.  i used to shoot lead loads and the birds flopped alot, I switched to h12 #7, 3 birds last year none of them moved off the spot..  tail faned out on one that was it... 

I did notice on the three birds last year that I shot with h13 that the beak was busted up bad???  doubtful that had anything to do with it.. 
could be the amount of pellets involved that penetrate the head/neck..  it also might be due to the knetic energy behind the shot..
I'm sure someone on here has some experience with this..

[redarrow]

I would have to think a brain shot would stone em.Flopping would maybe be a spine shot. Deer shot in the head don't move but shoot one in the spine and they do the Curly shuffle.

[knightrider]

I would have to think a brain shot would stone em.Flopping would maybe be a spine shot. Deer shot in the head don't move but shoot one in the spine and they do the Curly shuffle.

curly shuffle  

[turkey_slayer]

I would have to think a brain shot would stone em.Flopping would maybe be a spine shot. Deer shot in the head don't move but shoot one in the spine and they do the Curly shuffle.

But what about the chicken? He has no head or brain  This is the part I'm trying to figure out.

[TRKYHTR]

I would have to think a brain shot would stone em.Flopping would maybe be a spine shot. Deer shot in the head don't move but shoot one in the spine and they do the Curly shuffle.

I agree.

TRKYHTR

[FttFttVroom!]

I've never had one not move a little bit at least.  The nastiest (and closest) one I ever shot had most of the region above his beak removed and he still managed a good flop and leg kick.  I just hate it when they go rolling and mess up those beautiful tail feather!

[Skeeterbait]

Well from biology I remember that the lower developed an animal's brain is, the more reflex action they have because the nervous system handles more of the muscular movement alone.  This causes more after death movement in these animals even if the brain is distroyed or disconnected from the body by spinal severance.  Take a snake for instance crawling without a head, or the chicken example.  Now that does not answer why some do more than others of the same species.  I tend to believe that is just chance.  However how much fear vs relaxed an animal is just prior to death (how much adrenalin is in their system) may have something to do with it.

[turkey_slayer]

Well from biology I remember that the lower developed an animal's brain is, the more reflex action they have because the nervous system handles more of the muscular movement alone.  This causes more after death movement in these animals even if the brain is distroyed or disconnected from the body by spinal severance.  Take a snake for instance crawling without a head, or the chicken example.  Now that does not answer why some do more than others of the same species.  I tend to believe that is just chance.  However how much fear vs relaxed an animal is just prior to death (how much adrenalin is in their system) may have something to do with it.

Had thought of this as well. Take a deer for example, say you heart shoot one.  Even though it has no heart it can still run a little ways.  I think adrenaline has a part in that. There is also another thing that causes that.  Even when an animals heart stops pumping it can live till the oxygen remaining in the blood depletes.  But I still think there is more to it cause were not heart shooting turkeys.  Maybe its like you say its just chance. 

[longspur]

I noticed when I was a kid with a bb gun if you shoot a bird in the head it would flop like crazy but a shot through the chest would drop it stone dead. Could be that if some of the shot go through vitals besides in neck and head they don't flop much. I never shot but one that didn"t flop, it was a long shot and was from behind the bird. I don't know. good question

[hookedspur]

I always thought that a bird hit in the brain would flop but if you broke his spine he was paralysed and couldn't flop.But I don't know for sure.

[joshua]

However how much fear vs relaxed an animal is just prior to death (how much adrenalin is in their system) may have something to do with it.

This is what I was thinking also.

[dpittman]

It seems to me that the hardest hit birds flop the most. Shot one last year at 18 yards with H13 7's and he flopped like crazy. Needless to say his head was pretty jellied. My 6 year old shot a jake last year at 20 yards with H12 7.5's in the body (pulled the shot I guess) and that turkey did not flop. Several pellets thru the heart and lungs.

[sugarray]

Here is my .02 cents:

When you sever the spinal cord or hit the brain, there are still reflexes that occur.  A reflex occurs as a result of the SPINAL cord, not from the brain.  So when you sever the cord high, the reflex that causes wing beating and leg movement will still work.  Like the doc hitting your knee and it jerking out.  The heart is also still beating a few beats, IMOH, during this period as well.  So, there is circulating blood to keep the muscles working.

When a bird is stone dead I think you have hit the part of the brain that handles lung and heart beating.  There is a center in the brain that runs the automatic breathing and heart beating.  If you take this out, then those functions stop and then the birds don't have the blood to circulate to the muscles and they are stone dead.

May be way off, but that is as best my memory can serve basic brain and spinal process.