shotguns vs muzzleloaders for deer

[BigPeck215]

everytime i watch some hunting show on tv they say that the muzzleloader is a superior weapon to the shotgun for deer hunting in non-rifle states, i think this statement is just ludacris, i have hunted deer in MI with shotguns and ML's for over 15yrs and by far the shotgun is a superior weapon.

take the hornady sst bullet for example i've found that the majority of ML hunters shoot between 100-120grs of powder and either a 250-300gr bullet and with that kind of charge and bullet weight they are getting velocities between 1700-1900 fps, that same 300 gr bullet in a 12ga load gets slightly over 2000 fps. that is the same exact bullet with better velocity, trajectory, energy and accuracy (at least equal accuracy) out of the shotgun compared to the ML, not mention 5 shots available instead of one with the ML and all the tedious cleaning associated with ML

so why do people swear that muzzleloaders are the best choice for non rifle states, am i the only one who thinks this way?   

[Woodsman4God]

I believe its somewhat the old rule of thumb, I cant argue much with your numbers now but 10 years or more ago when most people were shooting foster style slugs only getting 14-1500 fps with less energy by far a ML was superior but nowadays thats not true anymore. I still hunt with both and like both. Seeing as how ML has a seperate season i will continue to use both

[Spring Creek Calls]

I've shot a bunch of deer with a shotgun and a few the ML. My experience has been that my ML has been more accurate, in particular over 100 yards. I have not tested the Hornady slugs, but the other brands could not beat the ML out of my setup. It's hard to imagine that a 50 cal. slug and sabot would fly better out of a 12 ga. diameter barrel than a 50 cal. diameter barrel. Just my 2 cents worth.

[stinkpickle]

Modern sabot slugs really level the playing field, especially in some of the fancier rifled shotguns (Tar-Hunt's, H&R Ultra's, Ithaca Deerslayer's, and so on).  My bone-stock H&R will shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards all day long with Win Partition Golds.  Plus, if I'm making a shot past 100 yards with either a shotgun or ML, environmental factors make a much bigger difference than they do with centerfire bullets, so a quick followup shot is always a good idea to have available. 

[Reloader]

I feel that modern Mlers are far superior to shotguns as well.  Between my Dad, little brother, and myself, we have 4 full rifled slug guns.  Between those 4 guns, I would say that my 1187 with 24" Hastings Paradox CL bbl is probably about the most accurate of the bunch.  Even then, it is only good for around 2" groups and suffers from occasional flyers way off zero.  The other 3 guns are good enough for deer to 100yds, but nothing to write home about.  You also have to realize that stated MVs on factory ammo is from a test bbl and real world MVs are usually 100fps+ less.  The Hdy SST would be lucky to break 1800-1900 from most slug guns, some even less.

Move to modern MLers.  I have a TC Omega that avgs 2115fps(chrono) with 110g vol of BH209 under 250g Barnes TMZs  lit by CCI 209Ms and shoots less than an inch at 100 and right around 2" at 200.  It only drops 2" at 200yds when zeroed 2" high at 100.  For another example, my Savage ML10II smokeless gives me 2200fps with a 300g bonded TC SW and groups shy of 1.5" at 100 and around 3" at 200.  It only drops around 5" at 200.  I would be lucky to hit a 2'x2' target at 200 with our slug guns, just very unpredictable weapons.

Heck, my old Knight USA with two 777 pellets and a 250g Hdy SST shoots right at an inch at 100 and only drops 10-12" at 200.

For those reasons, yeah, MLers are far superior to slug guns.

I feel as confident toting my Omega or ML10 as I do when toting a 30-06.

When we hunt IA, I use my MLer to hunt stands morning and eve, then use the slug gun for a few deer drives during the day.  Took a nice buck a couple years back with the slug gun at around 100yds and it took all 3 shots to seal the deal as he was running.

[buck_hunter21]

IMO. ML are head and shoulders above slug guns.

[njdevilsb]

I don't have a shotgun that I shoot slugs out of so I can't comment on that side of it.  I do know that my Traditions Vortek Ultralight is a very accurate Muzzle Loader.  It shoots like Reloader said his does.  Groups less than an inch at 100 yards.  I use 150g of American Pioneer powder with a TC Shockwave, I think 250g with a Bushnell Trophy XLT 250 on top.  I dialed it in at 100, and put the dot for 200 yards on a target that was 212, and it hit about 2 inches low and a tick to the right.  To say I was impressed is an understatement.  Modern Muzzle Loaders are not very far behind rifles to a certain extent.

[paradis1142]

I have always just used my mz

[CB on the run]

  Did you ever chronograph your 2000 fps load?  I bet it falls short as manufactures use a 30" test barrel as standard for their velocities.  I know most of my rifled barrels are in the 22-24" range and if your barrel is the same, the actual muzzle velocity will propbably be in the 1600-1700 fps area.
 As far as accuracy, less than 100 yards doesn't really matter but over 100  I would take my ML over my Browning Abolt slug gun.  I can hit a 3" diamond target with my TC Triumph ML at 200 yards.  I cannot say the same about my Browning which is more accurate than my Ithaca or Remington slug guns.  It also edged out the Savage 220F I sold over the summer.
 Cleaning a ML is more time consuming than my shotguns but the fouling has never stopped my from firing the gun as many times as needed in the field.  At the range I run a pre-soaked patch down the muzzle every 2 shots and give it a thorough cleaning at home.
 Lastly, many of the show pros are shooting from treestands over food plots were shots may range in the 200 + yard area.  I would opt for a ML also at that yardage.

CB

[VaTuRkStOmPeR]

I'll take muzzleloader 100% of the time over my slugger.

[C J Stahly]

I hunted most of my life with a shotgun and smoothbore with rifled slugs and a muzzleloader (first was an MK 85 LK) and now a TC encore.  I even bought a moss 695 slug gun in 2002 and used it while sitting during the shotgun season. 

I quit using shotguns for several years because the accuracy my encore provided was hands down superior to that of any shotgun I had owned.  However, I now have a remington with a canteliever rifled slug barrel and some decent optics throwing hornaday slugs....

Accuracy is not an issue with that gun.  I will shoot FANTASIC groups with that combo at 100-150yards.  In fact it will almost outshoot my ML.   I choose to bow hunt 99% of the time, however if I am in an area that Im allowed to use the slug gun I will take it.  Its a fantastic weapon. 

today, I wouldn't say one is better than the other, short of the user's capabilities....
I wouldn't have said that 10 years ago though. 

[30_06]

My best shotgun I could shoot out to 200 yards, my best muzzleloader shoots well beyond 300 yards. My worst muzzleloader is still quite the shooter at 200 yards compared to my best shotgun.

[DKA]

Time has changed the velocities quiet a bit, with slugs, but at the same some of the new powders have also changed the ML., guess should try to see.

[rebelman]

I have owned 3 muzzleloaders and all 3 were terrible. I'd rather shoot a bow than another muzzleloader.