New Winchester TSS

[Greg Massey]

I agree with everyone, nothing wrong with bringing awareness to hunting gobblers going forward.

Some great posts....

[Happy]

Kind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...

Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not.  Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else.  For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it.  Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.

The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable.  Again, it is what it is.

Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".

Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.

The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that.  Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board. 

Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.

I can agree with all of this. In the world in which I operate. Killing a turkey is secondary to hunting a turkey. The game means more than the score.

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[bcuda]

I called one in last year to about 8 yards. I shot and blew his head clean off of his neck. For me I did not like that and would have preferred to have shot it at 20 to 30 yards. I will not take another shot that close ever again.

[Number17]

Kind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...

Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not.  Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else.  For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it.  Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.

The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable.  Again, it is what it is.

Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".

Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.

The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that.  Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board. 

Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.

I've contemplated this for quite a while now and have concluded that I believe TSS loads are actually GOOD for the population of gobblers on the landscape. We are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect ratio of shots : dead gobblers at a 1:1 ratio.
20-30 years ago I'd hear tales all season long about guys "rolling" birds where they shot and knocked them down, but the bird recovered and got away. Some guys almost would make bragging rights out of it, "Rolled another one this morning!"
I much prefer a Bang-Flop to Bang-Bang-Bang-Flop.
I believe LESS gobblers are being killed with more guys using TSS because they are shooting at 2 birds a year and killing 2 birds a year........instead of shooting at 4-6 birds a year and getting 2 of them in their hand.
Shoot TSS, Save a Turkey!

Remember, hens make more gobblers. Save the hens. Our destiny is in our hens, not our hands!

[joey46]

Strongly agree.  Always cringe when anyone says "clean miss" when a bird runs off. Betting that bird is carrying a few souvenirs. Much better to hit one hard with TSS from a well patterned gun at reasonable range.

[paboxcall]

I've contemplated this for quite a while now and have concluded that I believe TSS loads are actually GOOD for the population of gobblers on the landscape. We are about as close as you'll ever get to a perfect ratio of shots : dead gobblers at a 1:1 ratio.
20-30 years ago I'd hear tales all season long about guys "rolling" birds where they shot and knocked them down, but the bird recovered and got away. Some guys almost would make bragging rights out of it, "Rolled another one this morning!"
I much prefer a Bang-Flop to Bang-Bang-Bang-Flop.
I believe LESS gobblers are being killed with more guys using TSS because they are shooting at 2 birds a year and killing 2 birds a year........instead of shooting at 4-6 birds a year and getting 2 of them in their hand.
Shoot TSS, Save a Turkey!

Remember, hens make more gobblers. Save the hens. Our destiny is in our hens, not our hands!

I concur, TSS is likely more consistently lethal at ranges out to 40 yards. Also probably busts through vegetation better than lead on its way there.

But your point of bang-flop...unethical marketing like Winchester's deliberately misinforms casual hunters that they can shoot at distances way too far. Distances where the front bead literally covers the bird. Even TSS, at those unethical ranges, is back to bang-bang-bang-roll, the squeeze and hope guys who think they're turkey hunters shooting birds at stupid ranges.

[zelmo1]

All good points here, my takeaway is that we need to be responsible and not buy into the " facts". I have no doubt that the vendor isn't lying, just giving the outer limits of the product. This is where we have to be smarter than the advertising. Good ammo/choke/gun combinations and good old fashioned practice is our responsibility. I truly believe that the people on this site are smart enough to do the ethical thing. Good luck and God bless. Z

[Number17]

Years ago there was guy who always thought it was ridiculous that I had a scope on my 870. Always making fun of it and saying "Why do you need a scope on a shotgun?"
He just happened to be at the range one day with his new 835 3.5" Ultimag wincing at every shot and flinching badly. He was complaining that his gun wouldn't even hit the target. I said "It's because you're flinching so bad." So he tells me to shoot it.
That gun kicked like a mule on crack and only put a few pellets on the paper. We finally figured out his gun was patterning about 24" high and I joke with him about putting a scope on it. He said "No way!"
Ran into him mid season on some gamelands and asked about his gun. He said "I just have to aim at their feet to hit them in the head." He was dead serious. Told me he "rolled" 6-7 birds so far.

Those kind of people and that type of attitude will always be the worst thing about our sport.

[ruination]

Kind of getting off of the topic a bit but here we are...

Quite honestly, it is a moot point to discuss what is ethical and what is not.  Each of us chooses the ethical standards we want to hunt by, whether it be turkeys or anything else.  For instance, whether we agree with it or not, some folks are just peachy-keen with shooting turkeys with rifles...and some states allow it.  Personally, I don't understand the desire to hunt turkeys that way. but it is what it is.

The same holds true for the guy who is sets up his gun where he can kill turkeys at ranges that many of us might find unacceptable.  Again, it is what it is.

Here is my concern: We have discussed the declines in turkey hunting opportunity ad nauseum here on OG. At least some of that decline is due to our increasing ability to kill gobblers with weapons and tactics that were not even imagined way back when turkey hunting...and especially spring gobbler hunting...became "a thing".

Gobblers that were safe when staying more than about forty yards away a few decades ago are now being mowed down at alarming rates because of such things as strutter decoys, fanning, and now...shotguns, chokes, and loads that will kill turkeys well beyond ranges that were considered acceptable back then.

The bottom line is that, as more folks turkey hunt and are willing to use methods...and shoot turkeys at ranges that at one time were unimagined...we are all going to suffer with the impacts of that.  Those impacts are less hunting opportunity and less quality of turkey hunting across the board. 

Sure, we all want to (justifiably) blame other stuff like "social media" for why the above is happening but, in reality, each of us needs to look right smack dab in the closest mirror and admit that we might individually be part of the problem due to what each of us finds acceptable in how each of us chooses to hunt.

Really?  Didn't they hunt turkeys pretty much to extinction.  Think their methods were plenty effective.

[Spring Creek Calls]

20 gauge now available.

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[joey46]

Does anyone honestly think the average hunter will actually pattern these $12+ shells?  Of course not.