Closet Reapers??

[nativeks]

One of the biggest contributors to this decline seems to have been the introduction of CRP when the farm bill was signed in 1985. This program appears to be responsible for the desecration of millions of acres of possible polt rearing habitat by paying for the  implementation of poorly managed pine forest and invasive grasses that are of little use to turkeys just out of the egg in the name of erosion control and protecting water quality.

On the contrary, the drastic LOSS of CRP acreage in the midwest (think Kansas, Nebraska) is likely a major contributing factor to their turkey decline the past decade. Millions of acres of potential nesting/brood rearing habitat converted to ag.

At least in my area there wasn't a huge conversion out of CRP. My habitat is what the biologist I have been working with would call "ideal". Its almost void of birds. I went on a long 40 mile gravel bike ride the other day. I saw 4 different small hen groups. I saw no poults. I have no poults on my trail camera. I think something else (likely a combination of factors) is going on. The one big shift I have seen is small grains to corn/soybeans. However I am in the grasslands where they don't have access to that in my immediate area.

[Paulmyr]

One of the biggest contributors to this decline seems to have been the introduction of CRP when the farm bill was signed in 1985. This program appears to be responsible for the desecration of millions of acres of possible polt rearing habitat by paying for the  implementation of poorly managed pine forest and invasive grasses that are of little use to turkeys just out of the egg in the name of erosion control and protecting water quality.

On the contrary, the drastic LOSS of CRP acreage in the midwest (think Kansas, Nebraska) is likely a major contributing factor to their turkey decline the past decade. Millions of acres of potential nesting/brood rearing habitat converted to ag.

At least in my area there wasn't a huge conversion out of CRP. My habitat is what the biologist I have been working with would call "ideal". Its almost void of birds. I went on a long 40 mile gravel bike ride the other day. I saw 4 different small hen groups. I saw no poults. I have no poults on my trail camera. I think something else (likely a combination of factors) is going on. The one big shift I have seen is small grains to corn/soybeans. However I am in the grasslands where they don't have access to that in my immediate area.

It could possibly be in your area you had good turkey production because the initiation of CRP in created good polt habitat as it grew in. I'm not sure of the practice in your area but I'm under the impression that most CRP in the prairie region wasn't planted and just allowed to go fallow and allow plants from the seed bank to grow. The original plants were most likely conducive to polt rearing like forbes and the like. Again I'm not sure but I'm under the impression that once entered into CRP the land owner is not allowed to touch it. Now 30 years later certain grasses have taken over and the CRP has grown too thick from lack of disturbance to be of any use to polts during the 1st few weeks. All conjecture on my part but it maybe something to look into.

[Roost 1]

CRP is supposed to be bushhogged every other year.  Most people in my area bushhog strips every year alternating each year.

I feel like the decline of CRP in my area is one cause of the decline.

[nativeks]

One of the biggest contributors to this decline seems to have been the introduction of CRP when the farm bill was signed in 1985. This program appears to be responsible for the desecration of millions of acres of possible polt rearing habitat by paying for the  implementation of poorly managed pine forest and invasive grasses that are of little use to turkeys just out of the egg in the name of erosion control and protecting water quality.

On the contrary, the drastic LOSS of CRP acreage in the midwest (think Kansas, Nebraska) is likely a major contributing factor to their turkey decline the past decade. Millions of acres of potential nesting/brood rearing habitat converted to ag.

At least in my area there wasn't a huge conversion out of CRP. My habitat is what the biologist I have been working with would call "ideal". Its almost void of birds. I went on a long 40 mile gravel bike ride the other day. I saw 4 different small hen groups. I saw no poults. I have no poults on my trail camera. I think something else (likely a combination of factors) is going on. The one big shift I have seen is small grains to corn/soybeans. However I am in the grasslands where they don't have access to that in my immediate area.

I'd could possibly be in your area you had good turkey production because the initiation of CRP in created good polt habitat as it grew in. I'm not sure of the practice in your area but I'm under the impression that most CRP in the prairie region wasn't planted and just allowed to go fallow and allow plants from the seed bank to grow. The original plants were most likely conducive to polt rearing like forbes and the like. Again I'm not sure but I'm under the impression that once entered into CRP the land owner is not allowed to touch it. Now 30 years later certain grasses have taken over and the CRP has grown too thick from lack of disturbance to be of any use to polts during the 1st few weeks. All conjecture on my part but it maybe something to look into.

Alot of it was planted. You can still see the rows where sericea contaminated my neighbors native grass seed. Mine was also planted with a mix the state approved.

[Paulmyr]

CRP is supposed to be bushhogged every other year.  Most people in my area bushhog strips every year alternating each year.

I feel like the decline of CRP in my area is one cause of the decline.

I think the preferred disturbances to promote polt habitat are burning and tilling. There needs to be room between the plant bases that allows polts to move freely. I don't think mowing does this and promotes the growth of grasses that grow too close together to be beneficial.

One of the biggest contributors to this decline seems to have been the introduction of CRP when the farm bill was signed in 1985. This program appears to be responsible for the desecration of millions of acres of possible polt rearing habitat by paying for the  implementation of poorly managed pine forest and invasive grasses that are of little use to turkeys just out of the egg in the name of erosion control and protecting water quality.

On the contrary, the drastic LOSS of CRP acreage in the midwest (think Kansas, Nebraska) is likely a major contributing factor to their turkey decline the past decade. Millions of acres of potential nesting/brood rearing habitat converted to ag.

At least in my area there wasn't a huge conversion out of CRP. My habitat is what the biologist I have been working with would call "ideal". Its almost void of birds. I went on a long 40 mile gravel bike ride the other day. I saw 4 different small hen groups. I saw no poults. I have no poults on my trail camera. I think something else (likely a combination of factors) is going on. The one big shift I have seen is small grains to corn/soybeans. However I am in the grasslands where they don't have access to that in my immediate area.

I'd could possibly be in your area you had good turkey production because the initiation of CRP in created good polt habitat as it grew in. I'm not sure of the practice in your area but I'm under the impression that most CRP in the prairie region wasn't planted and just allowed to go fallow and allow plants from the seed bank to grow. The original plants were most likely conducive to polt rearing like forbes and the like. Again I'm not sure but I'm under the impression that once entered into CRP the land owner is not allowed to touch it. Now 30 years later certain grasses have taken over and the CRP has grown too thick from lack of disturbance to be of any use to polts during the 1st few weeks. All conjecture on my part but it maybe something to look into.

Alot of it was planted. You can still see the rows where sericea contaminated my neighbors native grass seed. Mine was also planted with a mix the state approved.

Have you guys been listening to The TFT Wild  Turkey Science podcast. It's extremely informative. 6 of the last 15 or so episodes have concentrated on polt rearing habitat and changes in the landscape that most likely effected it. I'd highly recommend episodes 21,22,29,30,32, and the latest one episode 35 if you haven't listened already. I don't remember which episode but one gets into how many of the approved CRP plantings are detrimental to polt rearing habitat. Good for erosion control, not so good for turkey production.

[eggshell]

CRP varies so widely from region to region that the program can not possibly have all positive or all negative effect across the US. Regionally there are probably CRP practices that impact turkeys, but in others it has very little if any effect. My family home farm is in CRP (250 acres ) and we had a choice of plantings and went with low grasses, clovers, wildflowers and legumes. Borders and fire lanes are usually legumes like clover or alfalfa in this area. You sign up on a 15 year rotation and there are mowing guidelines like roost said. Half the farm gets mowed every year then the other half. I have no idea how forest land CRP works, but in our region all CRP is in flood-planes and previously tilled farm land. 90% of it was never turkey habitat and if anything is true it has been used by turkeys only because it is now in CRP. Pheasants have prospered a lot from CRP land, so how do we choose which species gets managed for? In my area we are forested hills and big timber land and then river bottom farm land, very little in between. Our turkeys are not impacted by CRP is my observation. Yet many areas in this region are seeing decline as well. I believe you all, when you say it's an impact in your regions, but I doubt we can assume it's a broad sword cut across the land. More than likely our turkey dilemma is a case of death by a thousand cuts and that is what makes it so tough to diagnose or treat.

Oh yeah, just to stay on topic, if all fields were planted in tall grasses like much CRP land is then reaping would not be an argument, it would be impossible. So the fix is sign all open fields up into CRP and plant tall grasses.

[nativeks]

Ive actually seen ground nesting birds etc respond favorably. Heck Ive got a pair of quail nesting within 30 yards of the house. Ive always got at least 1 covey now and some years 2. Ive got meadowlarks back, there are rabbits everywhere, etc. However turkeys have not responded favorably.

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[Paulmyr]

How many acres do you have?

[joey46]

As "forum normal" these threads often take long turns from the original title.  No problem just an observation.  Down here (FL) there is another set aside program but the name is escaping me at the moment.  We have limited access to some property that contains plenty of it.  It appears to be working since the turkey/deer populations seem consistent in the 16+ years I've hunted there.  Anything to stop the bulldozers is a good thing.  Some programs, I'm sure, are better than others. Appreciate the enthusiasm (usually ) of some of you younger hunters.  I do see you ending up being very frustrated now and in the years' ahead.  This thread certainly shows this from both sides of the aisle.  Good luck.

[Tom007]

What's nice to see is there has been lots of things discussed on this thread. Like all long discussions that contain a lot of differing view points, there were contentious times throughout. The good news here is everyone hung in there, continuing to constructively participate. This is what separates this forum from the others, I'm confident we will all enjoy many more years of success. Be safe.....