Question In Line With The Subject Of Resident and Non Resident Hunting

[mountainhunter1]

For the record before I pose my question, please hear me that I am not opposed to Non Resident hunting for Turkeys and think that folks should have the opportunity to go to new places and try new things.

That said, maybe there is a better question to ask while on this subject of resident and non resident hunting. So my question is this - How many turkeys do you think that a hunter should be allowed to harvest (resident and nonresident combined) in the U.S. each  Spring/Fall?

As I ask this question, I want to stress that while I feel that habitat issues and predators are the much bigger issue to the turkey decline, this is still a reasonable question to get a better grasp on possible common ground on the subject. I also realize that Fall seasons in some states does somewhat complicate this question. But - you tell me, how many turkeys do you feel is reasonable for a hunter to harvest in the U.S. (resident and non-resident combined) each season to allow him to enjoy the sport while at the same time also serving the Turkey's best interests long term?

[guesswho]

Ever how many an individual hunter has the time, money, family support and the law will allow.  If that's two, then two, if that's 20 or more, so be it.

[joey46]

That is a loaded question and I'm not falling into that trap.  Any hunter that has the resources to hunt multiple states, follows the game laws, and utilizes the bird is more than welcome IMO to go for it.  Under that criteria one in a thousand will qualify.  OOS hunters can tell you the $$$$ involved to hunt other states.  Border state hunters could be an exception but the price of OOS licenses are pretty much out of sight. No longer a sport for the cheap a$$.

[USMC0331]

Ever how many an individual hunter has the time, money, family support and the law will allow.  If that's two, then two, if that's 20 or more, so be it.

Factual information!!

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[mountainhunter1]

That is a loaded question and I'm not falling into that trap.  Any hunter that has the resources to hunt multiple states, follows the game laws, and utilizes the bird is more than welcome IMO to go for it.  Under that criteria one in a thousand will qualify.  OOS hunters can tell you the $$$$ involved to hunt other states.  Border state hunters could be an exception but the price of OOS licenses are pretty much out of sight. No longer a sport for the cheap a$$.

Let me clarify, my question had nothing to do with whether a person has the means financially, or the time and ability and family support to hunt all over the nation each year. I too would say just based on those unrelated factors to go for it as far hunting new places if one is able to do so. My question was posed on the angle of what can the turkey population sustain?

I will expose my ulterior motive in asking this question and it is not aimed at the non resident hunter or yourself, so please don't think otherwise. But - with all the data showing that the bottom is dropping out of the turkey population all across the country without hardly any exceptions, and then you see those saying that he/she is all for killing 20 or more birds if they have the means to do it - it is pretty easy to know that that individual does not have the turkey's best interest in mind.

A man insisting on killing 15-20 or more turkeys each spring with the turkey numbers down as bad as they are right now is kind of like a husband and wife sitting at the table and realizing that they only have 500 dollars left to spend for the month on un paid bills for them and the kids, and then the husband looks across the table and tells his wife that he is going to go and buy a Benelli M2 the next day and that she and the rest of the family can sit on a tack if they do not like it. Pretty clear that the husband does not have his family's best interests in mind at that point.

[richard black]

One in the spring and one in the fall if an individual feels they have to in the fall. Just because the law says we can harvest multiple birds, or travel to other states, is it really in the best interests of the turkey population or is it for our own interests. I'll say no more.

[Neill_Prater]

I've got a lot more to say, but will leave much of it for another day.

My take on the subject, the responsibility for control of harvest in the light of a reduced populations of birds lies solely with the  wildlife department in the individual states. The problems, perceived or real, regarding the increase of hunters, both resident and nonresident, whether they are YouTube stars in their 20's or retirees with the time and money to travel state to state, as long as those involved are obeying game laws and bag limits, is not for us, the hunter, to solve.

Those departments have largely been slow to react to changing conditions and increased hunting pressure and I fear we are going to see a lot of knee jerk regulations in the "well, at least we did something" category.

Some things to think about: will reducing the bag limit actually reduce the overall harvest, or merely create more, successful, happy hunters. I hunt a farm near my home. Population is way down. A group of other hunters, nice guys, also have access. They're still of working age, so usually hunt only opening day and weekends. I can hunt every day, so often just leave it to them. I had a nice bird spotted which I was lucky enough to kill opening morning. Now, I could have thought, not many birds, I'm not going to kill that bird, but, in all likelihood one of the other guys would have. Same principle on public land when you cut the limit.

Easy to cut limits. Even easier to cut nonresidents out of the equation. They don't vote in the state, so let's keep the locals happy. We cut the limit, we cut the number of nonresidents. Maybe we should be looking at the validity of ridiculously long seasons, in some cases, opening way before common sense tells us they should, all day hunting, and fall seasons.

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[joey46]

Nice post NP.  I've played this game since the 1970s and don't personally know anyone that has regularly hunted more than two states in any one season.  I'm sure there are a few of these magical multistate turkey slayers but they are so few they are not a factor in anyway with reduced turkey numbers.  These forums at times wear me out. Why in heavens name would me, or anyone, shooting a FL bird in March then a PA bird in May make any difference in the overall scheme of things?

[guesswho]

Ok, I change my answer to one.   And the hunter should hang his head in shame for killing it, even if the state he is hunting in thinks the population is healthy enough that he should be able to kill two without decimating the population.

[Spurs]

There seems to be a common problem with many of these type posts IMO.  States have different views on how they manage their harvest/season dates in relation to population.

Opportunity vs. Satisfaction

Opportunities-Long seasons, open earlier, higher tag counts, etc.
Satisfaction-Short seasons or quota periods, short durations, lower tag counts.

Now there can be variations to attempt to manage both aspects...Wisconsin comes to mind.

It seems that states like Iowa are geared more towards satisfaction while places like Mississippi are the opposite. 

Personally, I'm an opportunity advocate for a couple of reasons. 

1.  Habitat management could be fixed through a huge portion of the SE if the states would start going after the timber companies.  Also, they could start in their own backyard with most of the public property being single growth with little-to-no diversity.  I'm not a huge fan of Govt interference with corporate interests, BUT if they will eventually get to a point that they will be restricting me...which is not cool with me.

2.  We pay for the access, so give it to us.  Call it selfish, but I want to go hunting.  The problems can be fixed, the bird can rebound.  Habitat, research, predator control, etc.

Restrictions are not warranted YET. 

[joey46]

Ok, I change my answer to one.   And the hunter should hang his head in shame for killing it, even if the state he is hunting in thinks the population is healthy enough that he should be able to kill two without decimating the population.

Glad you changed your answer.  We would have thought you were a greedy game hog. Lol.

[mountainhunter1]

Why in heavens name would me, or anyone, shooting a FL bird in March then a PA bird in May make any difference in the overall scheme of things?

I clearly said this was not directed at you, please go back and read what was actually posted. You killing three-four birds over the course of several states each year is not the issue. On top of that, go and get you a Rio and a Merriam's as you mentioned (Do it several times along the way). There is nothing wrong with that either.

[guesswho]

Glad you changed your answer.  We would have thought you were a greedy game hog. Lol.

[Greg Massey]

That is a loaded question and I'm not falling into that trap.  Any hunter that has the resources to hunt multiple states, follows the game laws, and utilizes the bird is more than welcome IMO to go for it.  Under that criteria one in a thousand will qualify.  OOS hunters can tell you the $$$$ involved to hunt other states.  Border state hunters could be an exception but the price of OOS licenses are pretty much out of sight. No longer a sport for the cheap a$$.

Let me clarify, my question had nothing to do with whether a person has the means financially, or the time and ability and family support to hunt all over the nation each year. I too would say just based on those unrelated factors to go for it as far hunting new places if one is able to do so. My question was posed on the angle of what can the turkey population sustain?

I will expose my ulterior motive in asking this question and it is not aimed at the non resident hunter or yourself, so please don't think otherwise. But - with all the data showing that the bottom is dropping out of the turkey population all across the country without hardly any exceptions, and then you see those saying that he/she is all for killing 20 or more birds if they have the means to do it - it is pretty easy to know that that individual does not have the turkey's best interest in mind.

A man insisting on killing 15-20 or more turkeys each spring with the turkey numbers down as bad as they are right now is kind of like a husband and wife sitting at the table and realizing that they only have 500 dollars left to spend for the month on un paid bills for them and the kids, and then the husband looks across the table and tells his wife that he is going to go and buy a Benelli M2 the next day and that she and the rest of the family can sit on a tack if they do not like it. Pretty clear that the husband does not have his family's best interests in mind at that point.

X2 .. good post ... You can tell who has the best interest in the future of the turkeys ...

[guesswho]

What about the guy who tags along with another hunter or two through the season who normally doesn't stand a snowballs chance of killing one, and helps them learn a thing or two and even kill a couple?  Then turns around and fills his last tag or two.   Should he be able to assist others while he still has tags, what if he's out of tags?