Bird Numbers Down/ Decrees The Limit ?

[joey46]

No OOS a pipe dream.  The business's that receive revenue from OOS hunters may disagree with that solution.  One thing FL has noticed that all those OOS stay in motels, buy gas, eat in restaurants, shop in souvenir stores and often dump the wife and kids at Disney during their Osceola safaris. Closing ANY state to OOS won't happen. Too much $$$ involved.  Think of another solution. 

Actually the Ohio solution makes the most sense.  A one bird limit for everyone.  I have lived long enough to see Ohio go from a one bird limited draw hunt to a two bird limit and now back to one.  When it was a one bird draw probably 5000 applied if that.  Now turkey hunting is the rage.  Oh well.  Maybe go back to limited permits for everyone.  LOL.

[mountainhunter1]

Couple of thoughts.

The FL/GA battle over hunting and fishing is well known by Northern and Central Floridians.  GA is better at charging for their resources and FL should do the same.  Don't be more restrictive, be more expensive.  We are one of the few states that does not charge for the privilege of OOS hunters to come here and kill an Osceola.  I would even like to see a special OOS Osceola tag that is priced accordingly.  And then the money used for habitat. 

GA hunters pay about 200 to hunt FL for turkey (for 10 days public land), FL hunters pay 325 to hunt GA for turkey.  I agree with GA, not Florida.  No where else you can kill an Osceola and we should charge for it. 

I go to my local ramp (salt) and there will be 50% plus GA residents.  I don't mind them being here, but they should pay more than residents, by a lot.  Not as a penalty, but as a way to pay for the privilege to fish here.

Ga offer a limited license for non residents where they can buy one day and add additional days there after. Not sure what the cost is. The regs are confusing.

Unless it has changed in the last year or so, it is 150 dollars for day one, and 14 dollars for each additional day you hunt.

[FLGobstopper]

I feel if they decrease the bag limits to the residence people of that state to save turkey population, then i feel they should do away with OOS people traveling to that state for couple of years or have a limited number of tags, as everyone has said we have more and more people turkey hunting NOW...  It's all about the future of saving the turkeys RIGHT?   SOMETIMES man can be the predator or worst enemy to the future of the turkeys... IMO.... lots of good posts... Let's take Public land as a resident tax payer WHY should i have to pull up to a public piece of land and see 5 out of state vehicles and not one local vehicle. I mean we have it posted on the forum all the time about the numbers of out of state people camping out at gates and the number of out of OOS people.  Again if you decrease the turkey limit you should decrease the overall number of OOS travels... IMO....

I agree and or at the very least shorten the season for OOS on public lands and limit it to later in the season. In FL for example give first 2 weeks to residents.

[Marc]

America is still a free country for the most part and that is much of what I love about where we live.

But still, if the turkey is in trouble, does anyone need to be killing 10-20 or more turkeys a year at this point?

I cannot speak to everyone doing this...  But those who I know that really travel to turkey hunt, are also the ones making the largest donations towards conservation...  Kinda' a double edged sword here

Also, most of the people I know that can afford such travel (in time and money) are generally hunting far more private lands which of course are better managed for turkey hunting, and have higher success rates...  And the hunting of these areas are likely not affecting the over-all turkey populations of the state negatively (due to these land owners making money from managing turkeys).

I would in fact argue, that to some degree out of state "pay-to-play" hunting will incentivise some land owners to improve turkey habitat as a means of alternative financial income.  Which also sends turkey hunting down the road of being a bit elitist.

And...  I still avidly maintain, that if the main way we address the turkey decline is to limit hunting, we will see it decline faster... 

In California, we had tremendous numbers of pheasants even 20 years ago...  It was not uncommon to kick up covies of hundreds of birds at the end of a ditch.  Currently, it is uncommon to put up even one.

But the following have decimated pheasant populations in California, to a point that it is more likely than not that they will never recover from:

*Farmers selling land for development
*Farmers becoming (and needing to become) more efficient in land use to make an income (i.e. no fallow corners, no weeds in the orchards, etc.)
*Clear cutting ditches for better/more efficient water use.
*Drip irrigation and the efficiency of such only irrigating the particular crops has probably not helped.
*Mosquito spraying campaigns (largely due to West Nile) killing not only mosquitos but most of the other insects pheasant poults need for survival.

Frankly, I do not know enough of the agricultural and farming practices that are taking place outside of California, so I can only assume that similar issues are taking place.

If you want turkey numbers to rebound, much of that will rely upon farming...  And in order for them to get on board with such practices, they will either have to financially benefit, or at the very least, not financially lose, to jump on board with such programs.

To me, addressing turkey decline by decreasing turkey harvest is like giving a dying patient morphine to die a more comfortable death...  Ultimately, we would treat that patient for the pain short-term, and address the actual disease long-term to get the patient healthy, and off the pain control.

[Spitten and drummen]

My take , again my opinion. States want to take hunting days away and decrease limits. Ok , let's take a look at fall hunting. Either sex is allowed. Let's look at youth season. A week before regular season. PLENTY gobblers killed during that time by many not so youth. Habitat is a mess. All about the mighty dollar. There are several factors at play that created the perfect storm. The season has all ways started the same date here in Mississippi for as long as I can remember. I saw the population explode and I've seen it sparse. Back in the day people trapped because fur bearing animals were worth something. When I was a kid , we hunted the same dates as everyone else. Timber was still being cut but not on the same level as it has been the last 20 years. Money drives this and I have no issue with timber companies making money. My issue is the aftermath of the cut. The cutovers are not maintained because it cost money , therefore it grows back up into a briar thicket with the replanted pines which in turn produces higher numbers of predators. Then corn feeding is legalized for deer hunters , many feed year around , helping nest predators such as coons to have population explosions. These are just some of my thoughts. Maybe they should just cancel out of state turkey hunting for the next 5 years. My money says that won't make one iota of a difference. Over and out.

[sasquatch1]

This thread makes it easy to decipher who enjoys traveling around and hunting and who hunts a handful of days locally.

Don't wish for loss of opportunity! You'll likely never get it back.

Everyone wants draw this, limit this, etc etc until they end up having to sit home dreaming about hunting vs going to hunt! It is at that point they realize they would be glad to just have the opportunity to go hunt.

There's problems that need addressing population wise etc etc, but there's got to be better ways then limiting opportunity. And remember everyone is only a resident in 1 state!!!

And until there is legit tags where the system can't be cheated, we won't ever know what the harvest really is. Start there


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[Mossyguy]

If you could put someone in charge that actually cares about turkeys and not money that would be a huge start.    I'm lucky enough not to have to hunt public land here in Mississippi but I feel for those that do. With money the driving force it's not going to change anytime soon.

[Marc]

Don't wish for loss of opportunity! You'll likely never get it back.

That is debateable. 

We would like to think that harvest limits are created solely based on science and conservation...  They are not.

Even in the most liberal state of the Union (i.e. California), deer tags, and duck seasons and limits are often kept at high levels due to $$$$.

If anti-hunting groups can generate more financial income than hunting can, hunting will be in deep doo-doo.

But if money is lost with decreased harvest limits and season lengths, as soon as numbers rebound, those harvest numbers and season lengths will reflect that.  License/tag sales, ammunition sales, hotels, food, etc...  Are all monies that the state wants.  More hunting tags sold means more money.

The good and bad of California, is that taxes and license sales from hunting go to the general state fund...  Not to the Fish & Wildlife, or back to conservation...

The good being, that the state is incentivised to keep hunting/fishing around by MONEY for non-conservation related funding...  The downside of course is that NONE of the money generated goes into improving the hunting/fishing/conservation of the state.

[joey46]

So many on this topic seem to think the turkey is a migratory bird.  Since it isn't under federal control like the duck all these suggestions that the states cooperate with each other on hosing the OOS aren't going to work.  Many of the states want the OOS money.  So many charge so little for resident licenses that it is pathetic.  Of course they want the OOS money.  To give them away to residents like Florida does is a joke.  I'm faintly remembering two southern states that tried a reciprocal license fee that turned into a laugher when a resident of either state that wanted to hunt the other needed a second mortgage.

[silvestris]

"Soylent Green is PEOPLE".

[arkrem870]

More regs coming. More loss of opportunity on the horizon for the public land hunter. Remember this when you tune into your favorite "channel" for entertainment . Loose lips sink ships

[Greg Massey]

Loose lips started sinking the ship the Covid lock down year.... That was where most of the statistics of decreasing the season all started... People turkey hunting for the first time and telling our Local TWRA that they didn't hear or see any turkeys... Not every place holds turkeys... This forum with people voicing or sharing opinions has very little effect on changes or opportunity... If it did we would have a lot more of these officials on the forum...

[davisd9]

If you feel there should be a decrease in tags then you should personally adhere to the limit you think it should be in principle and not take advantage of what the actual limit is.

[Farmboy27]

What I'm seeing in a lot of these posts is the same old thing. I don't want other people shooting anything so I can have more to shoot!  No one here is volunteering to buy a tag and burn it so one less bird gets killed. No one is volunteering to hunt a few less days to lessen their possible impact on nesting hens.

[Greg Massey]

What they did here in Tennessee is move the season back to the 15 of April, it always opened the first of April. Now in them moving it back to the 15 of April, they added the 15 days back to the end of season, which puts hunters in the woods as hens are nesting and the disturbing of the new born poults. I do hope in the future they rethink what impact this could have also.... IMO