Need for Outfitters pros and cons section

[topnotch]

Wish there was a place where members could give credit to good outfitter experience and heads up on the not so good businesses out there.
Just got back from south Georgia from an outfitter who supposedly has a high ranking. Knew something was up when two hunters who were a day ahead of me complained about trady guides. Soon found out why, arrived in afternoon and no one came by until 9 PM for money. Next morny guide late, after 730. No roosting that evening, last morning 8:30 arrival,was 9:30 before getting to hunting location. Was told I need to be out by 3 PM. Guides walked rapidly through the woods with phone in one hand and fan in the other while constant calling. Did kill one first morning, but I think the bird was suicidal.

[Zobo]

Wow. That's horrifying. That's not turkey hunting.

[Sir-diealot]

When this has been brought up in the past I made basically this reply, if that is done it would open the website up to Libel, Slander, and Defamation suits against the site. I would love to see it myself but not at the detriment of this site. Saw a computer review website get in deep water when one of the reviewers defamed a maker of a video card and the site came very close to getting shut down. I do not want that to happen here.

If a person posts their opinion on a thread that they have created on their own MAYBE that would be alright, but to give a place to defame a business on the page would cause all kinds or problems. One of the big things is people get angry and they post opinion instead of sticking directly to the facts, that is where the problems really come in. Even with facts they had better be provable.

[deathfoot]

When this has been brought up in the past I made basically this reply, if that is done it would open the website up to Libel, Slander, and Defamation suits against the site. I would love to see it myself but not at the detriment of this site. Saw a computer review website get in deep water when one of the reviewers defamed a maker of a video card and the site came very close to getting shut down. I do not want that to happen here.

If a person posts their opinion on a thread that they have created on their own MAYBE that would be alright, but to give a place to defame a business on the page would cause all kinds or problems. One of the big things is people get angry and they post opinion instead of sticking directly to the facts, they is where the problems really come in. Even with facts they had better be provable.

Good points steve. I would actually like to see something along these lines too. I only use outfitters to pay to trespass basically. I don't need or want a guide. Just some land when I travel. But even some of those places can be shady. Promises of tons of birds when they have few. I've not done it much but I've self guided a few states with outfitters (I've got 2 this year) and I've always had great success and great accommodations. But I know it's not always like that.

I do like the fact that people ask about places etc. I won't publicly reply but I send PM's.

[Sir-diealot]

When this has been brought up in the past I made basically this reply, if that is done it would open the website up to Libel, Slander, and Defamation suits against the site. I would love to see it myself but not at the detriment of this site. Saw a computer review website get in deep water when one of the reviewers defamed a maker of a video card and the site came very close to getting shut down. I do not want that to happen here.

If a person posts their opinion on a thread that they have created on their own MAYBE that would be alright, but to give a place to defame a business on the page would cause all kinds or problems. One of the big things is people get angry and they post opinion instead of sticking directly to the facts, they is where the problems really come in. Even with facts they had better be provable.

Good points steve. I would actually like to see something along these lines too. I only use outfitters to pay to trespass basically. I don't need or want a guide. Just some land when I travel. But even some of those places can be shady. Promises of tons of birds when they have few. I've not done it much but I've self guided a few states with outfitters (I've got 2 this year) and I've always had great success and great accommodations. But I know it's not always like that.

I do like the fact that people ask about places etc. I won't publicly reply but I send PM's.

I think PM's are the best idea for sure. I also wish something could be done like a section for that, but I would hate to see this site go under because it got sued, I have learned so much and made some great friends here.

[RND1983]

I think you can share outfitters if you just stick to facts. I had a poor experience in Texas from a supposed well-known and well-reviewed outfitter. Heard and saw one bird total and killed him the first 5 mins of the first afternoon. His tracks were the only tracks I saw. There were no efforts made to change ranches when the one I was on was completely void of birds. If there were efforts to change things up and relocate us, I have no problem with that. Over 100,000 acres of dirt was advertised by them. If you sell hunts in Texas, you should have a pretty good idea of the numbers and where the birds are so that hunters at least have opportunity.

[2flyfish4]

Id like to see the same as long as it doesn't turn into the same stuff you see on these Facebook groups were its just a bunch of people with fake accounts pimping their own guide service.

[g8rvet]

I had a problem with a duck lease in Mississippi about 10 or so years ago.  I got it all over the web and to this day if you google that place, my posts pop up on the front page.  More people need to do that. It took me maybe thirty minutes to post it.


I would like to see just a section for positive reviews.  No libel there. 

[Zobo]

I think you can share outfitters if you just stick to facts. I had a poor experience in Texas from a supposed well-known and well-reviewed outfitter. Heard and saw one bird total and killed him the first 5 mins of the first afternoon. His tracks were the only tracks I saw. There were no efforts made to change ranches when the one I was on was completely void of birds. If there were efforts to change things up and relocate us, I have no problem with that. Over 100,000 acres of dirt was advertised by them. If you sell hunts in Texas, you should have a pretty good idea of the numbers and where the birds are so that hunters at least have opportunity.

Yes, it would only be libelous if what you wrote was untrue. Truth is an absolute defense in libel and slander cases. In other words, nothing is considered defamatory if it's true. But, of course there are sometimes gray areas in what's considered the truth.

[Sir-diealot]

I think you can share outfitters if you just stick to facts. I had a poor experience in Texas from a supposed well-known and well-reviewed outfitter. Heard and saw one bird total and killed him the first 5 mins of the first afternoon. His tracks were the only tracks I saw. There were no efforts made to change ranches when the one I was on was completely void of birds. If there were efforts to change things up and relocate us, I have no problem with that. Over 100,000 acres of dirt was advertised by them. If you sell hunts in Texas, you should have a pretty good idea of the numbers and where the birds are so that hunters at least have opportunity.

Yes, it would only be libelous if what you wrote was untrue. Truth is an absolute defense in libel and slander cases. In other words, nothing is considered defamatory if it's true. But, of course there are sometimes gray areas in what's considered the truth.

One thing I learned when I was young and got in a lot of trouble was "There is my truth, their truth and then there is the laws truth" and more often than not it was on their side because they had money and I did not.

[topnotch]

I've had some fantastic outfitters that I can't say too much good about.
It's getting harder to find one that will turn you loose in a designated area and let you hunt (my favorite in Ozena TX ) lost his lease and I've never found anyone that comes close. This Georgia outfitter had birds, but no guide dependence, they relied on smart game camera photos and pushed hard to cover lots of properties. Not hunting ??.
I've had worse, 8 years ago in Eric , Oklahoma I had the guide take us to a permanent blind with a corn pile at a pond. The pond was full of floating turkey carcasses. I lost my money but l left as quick as I could.
Maybe just a link where you could ask for recommendation from members for a certain state or area. Positive input couldn't be reason for liability.

[Marc]

I have used guides for hunting and fly fishing... 

I have had far, far more luck with fly fishing guides.  Their job is to put me on areas that hold fish, and tell me the flies and  techniques to use...  They can't fish for me, but they sure want me to catch fish.

I have had one good experience with a waterfowl guide in the states; he put us on birds, and let us do the calling and call the shots.  Had a good outfitter in Canada that scouted birds, helped us set up in the morning, and dropped us off (my idea of a perfect guide).  When I talk to most guides, they will not let clients do the calling or call the shots (which I understand, but does not interest me).  A surprising number of guides shoot with the clients...  Some trying to give clients credit for birds they shot (i.e. birds the guide, not the clients shot).

Doing some traveling in the past, I have called about guides for turkey, and it seems turkey guides feel the same way...  I requested that the guide does not take a call, and was told to pound sand (politely).  I have almost zero interest in shooting a turkey (actually shooting them is the easiest part), but I sure like to hunt them...

This past weekend, I had to travel for a seminar, and had a day to myself (Arizona) and looked for a turkey outfitter in the area.  A bit out of my price range at $2K for a day of hunting.   (I have to think I misunderstood, or they did, cause I do not see many turkey hunters paying $2K for a day of hunting).

I know there are good outfitters...  And there are bad ones...  Given the opportunity for purely hunting, I would do my research and find an outfitter that matched my needs.  Unfortunately, a lot of the time, I am traveling for a seminar or class, or with family, and want to hunt the area I am traveling to for a day.

One thing I have learned about hiring a guide or outfitter is to get everything on an email...  Price, time in the field, letting me call, etc...  That way when the outfitter tells me "I never said that," I pull out the email with him saying that....  On paper.  Great way to watch someone's face turn red.

[NCL]

I have only hunting with a few guides and those hunts were not for turkeys but deer, elk and moose. Those hunts were all good with no complains. But I have extensive time with fly fishing guides from California to Canada and the states in between. My experience with fly fishing guides is very similar to what Marc stated that they want to get you on fish and I have seen their frustration when it is not working. I mostly fish with guides for steelhead using a swung fly which is the second most difficult method, skated fly being the most difficult, so my expectations are low and one fish is all I hope to get. I think it is important to adjust your expectations and to tell the guide what you expect.

[zelmo1]

I would suggest that if you want specific outfitter info, you post here for help. After that it should be in pm or other non public means. Just my  Z

[jhoward11]

Just think it would be a hard sell. I understand, we could all talk about how bad an outfitter is. But you could also have 10 buddies log into OG and tell about how great an outfitter is when in fact, they are the worst, and you would never know until you take the trip. There's ways around everything. Yes, talking to an individual would be better, but then again, you are taking what he/she has to say at face value. Buyer be where! Probably more than 2 cents worth.