What predator got these birds?

[Mountainburd]

I got these pictures back in the fall but I'm just now posting. I have lots and lots of coyotes, foxes, bears, the occasional fisher, but no bobcats to my knowledge. What do you think got the fan off this bird? Sorry it's a little blurry but he's in full strut.

The second picture is a separate bird that was with him missing his center tail feathers.

The reason I ask is that I have a friend who insists this is not the work of a coyote.


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[Guskie]

Feathers molt and regrow. That's likely what you are seeing.

[guesswho]

Nothing.  Natural occurrence.

[deathfoot]

Definitely not predator related. Just a natural process. Cool photo as well!

[Mountainburd]

Thanks for replies guys. You all are saying this is completely normal for them to lose all of their tail feathers every year? The top picture is an adult bird in full strut. He does not have a single tail feather.

My understanding with the molting process is once they reach a full fan, they general stay intact with the exception of a feather or two. Incorrect?

[guesswho]

I did see a gobbler lose about 10 tail feathers one spring during a fight.  Another gobbler came down on his tail about the same time he decided it was time to zig an zag.

[Guskie]

To me, the top pic looks like he is coming out of strut and just has his tail down.

[HookedonHooks]

To me, the top pic looks like he is coming out of strut and just has his tail down.

I agree with this, but it also looks like the guy has a video of the sequence so I'd assume he knows what he's looking at?

[Mountainburd]

To me, the top pic looks like he is coming out of strut and just has his tail down.

I agree with this, but it also looks like the guy has a video of the sequence so I'd assume he knows what he's looking at?

Correct. These are still frames from a video. He is strutting and has no fan at all.

[Tom007]

Looking at your second pic brought back a memory of a bird I harvested a few years ago. He was a very weary Tom, I messed with him for almost 2 hours before he would finally commit and come into my range. When I walked up to him and fanned out his tail, I noticed he was missing about 4 middle tail feathers. They were cleanly cut off on the quills about 3 inches up from where they were attached. They look like they were cut off with a sharp blade. My conclusion was maybe he was shot with a large Turkey broad head that cut them off. Put that together with his reluctance to come in made me feel that this was a possibility, but we will never know. Maybe the same thing happened to your second bird, and they are growing back? A mystery for sure....nice pics...

[HookedonHooks]

That second bird is a reaping fan's dream bird. They'd kill every turkey west of the Mississippi if they could crawl behind that one.

[Treerooster]

Thanks for replies guys. You all are saying this is completely normal for them to lose all of their tail feathers every year? The top picture is an adult bird in full strut. He does not have a single tail feather.

My understanding with the molting process is once they reach a full fan, they general stay intact with the exception of a feather or two. Incorrect?

Yes for the most part.

Can't really tell in the first pic but if you say all the tail feathers are missing than that is not natural. They must have been pulled. It is somewhat common for a ground predator to do, like a coyote, to pull the feathers by stepping on them. When my bird dogs go after a wounded grouse its pretty common for them to bring back the bird with some tail feathers missing. Just natural for the dog (or predator) to try and step on a bird and come up a bit short and step on just the tail. A bird with all its tail feathers missing is not very common, but it could happen. I did see a hen last spring with no tail feathers and I would think that was from a predator encounter.

The 2nd pic may be molted feathers but it doesn't look quite right. Turkeys are Galliformes (chicken like birds) and they molt their feathers in symmetric pairs. Like first the 2 center tail feathers, then the next 2 on each side of those, etc. (think how a jake's tail looks in the spring). But the next molted feathers don't fall out until the previous ones are almost fully grown. This allows the bird to keep the ability to fly. Same thing happens with the wing primaries in how they molt. The bird in the 2nd pic looks like it has 3 short feathers, not 4, and the 3 feathers seem to be growing about the same rate. If they were molted you should see 2 fully grown feathers with 2 shorter feathers on each side of those 2 coming in.

Galliformes molt once a year once mature, they go through several molts in their first year of life. If a feather, or feathers, is(are) pulled out they will begin to grow and be replaced quickly. If a feather is cut and the base or quill remains in the bird, the feather will not grow back until the next molt.

[Mountainburd]

Thanks for replies guys. You all are saying this is completely normal for them to lose all of their tail feathers every year? The top picture is an adult bird in full strut. He does not have a single tail feather.

My understanding with the molting process is once they reach a full fan, they general stay intact with the exception of a feather or two. Incorrect?

Yes for the most part.

Can't really tell in the first pic but if you say all the tail feathers are missing than that is not natural. They must have been pulled. It is somewhat common for a ground predator to do, like a coyote, to pull the feathers by stepping on them. When my bird dogs go after a wounded grouse its pretty common for them to bring back the bird with some tail feathers missing. Just natural for the dog (or predator) to try and step on a bird and come up a bit short and step on just the tail. A bird with all its tail feathers missing is not very common, but it could happen. I did see a hen last spring with no tail feathers and I would think that was from a predator encounter.

The 2nd pic may be molted feathers but it doesn't look quite right. Turkeys are Galliformes (chicken like birds) and they molt their feathers in symmetric pairs. Like first the 2 center tail feathers, then the next 2 on each side of those, etc. (think how a jake's tail looks in the spring). But the next molted feathers don't fall out until the previous ones are almost fully grown. This allows the bird to keep the ability to fly. Same thing happens with the wing primaries in how they molt. The bird in the 2nd pic looks like it has 3 short feathers, not 4, and the 3 feathers seem to be growing about the same rate. If they were molted you should see 2 fully grown feathers with 2 shorter feathers on each side of those 2 coming in.

Galliformes molt once a year once mature, they go through several molts in their first year of life. If a feather, or feathers, is(are) pulled out they will begin to grow and be replaced quickly. If a feather is cut and the base or quill remains in the bird, the feather will not grow back until the next molt.

Thank you! Great post. This is what I love about this site. And I appreciate that you agree it's the result of a predator as well. Yes they are all missing. He struts in circles in front of the camera in the video.

[Paulmyr]

I wonder if maybe he made it across the road and not his fan?