MT Turkey hunting harvest stat question

[tbowers]

Was killing time looking at harvest stats for MT. In 2021 they issued 38K tags, 36K of those are for residents. The resident success rate is around 17%. The non resident success is 42%. Thats a huge gap- Do most of the residents just buy a tag and never hunt? The number of days afield is roughly the same.

Then what also throws me for a loop is the Excel file that has the stats has a separate 'hunter success' tab that notates RES success is 42%. No idea were that number comes from.

Just thought it was really odd.

[TurkeyReaper69]

I'm sure you if could look at NR vs Resident harvest breakdowns in a number of western/northern states and draw similar comparisons. Turkey hunters from the southeast are far more proficient killers on average than those that hail from other regions of the country. And those traveling far distances to turkey hunt are more often than not from the southeast.

[WV Flopper]

 In my experience, I wouldn't agree 100% with what was stated.

Typically, a hunter traveling has experienced success with his regional population. Granted, regional for this discussion, should be considered by a map of the country.

There are turkey killing people in every state of the country. Maybe more so in the EAST, than the West. But, not necessarily JUST the south east.

I can hold my own anywhere in this country.  If you doubt, put me in your ground, I'll show you. A turkey is a turkey, the ones in the West have less pressure and are very caller receptive. The ones in the East are more pressured, but still can be killed by a turkey hunter.

A turkey hunter can kill a turkey anywhere!

Hunters in the West do not consider the Turkey as a big game animal in the sense they have so many more options. In the East we have Whitetail Deer, Bear, Turkey. Part of Kansas's problem is just that. Farmers wanted turkeys exterminated. I know this, they were not even considered a game animal, only a seed stealing pest.

Your harvest stats will be heavy on the nonres side. They come specifically to kill turkeys. The res tags may be filled, they may not. Plus, a lot of the res tags I would say are not even reported. Once they made it to the house it was a done deal.

[tbowers]

The overall number of resident licenses sold almost can't be right though??? SD sells around 2500 res turkey license,WY about the same. Then MT sells 36k??  is the general license issued by default along with another license type or something that drives the number way up?

[Chordeiles]

I'm not familiar with how Montana gets their Turkey
harvest stats, but if it's anything like how they get them
for deer...you can throw those numbers in the trash.
You are correct you're just killing time. 

[GobbleNut]

The overall number of resident licenses sold almost can't be right though??? SD sells around 2500 res turkey license,WY about the same. Then MT sells 36k??  is the general license issued by default along with another license type or something that drives the number way up?

Total speculation on my part here...
Couldn't say for sure, but I suspect the 36K is both spring and fall licenses, and you are correct in that either the fall turkey license is in combination with some other species or, more likely, is the result of being so inexpensive that residents pick one up just on the off-chance they might run into a turkey while hunting their main target species. 

The stats I saw also indicate that the nonresident success rate is 58% and the resident 42%.  I also suspect these are spring hunt percentages.  No doubt that nonresidents who will travel to Montana to hunt turkeys are most likely much more dedicated to spring hunting and more skilled than the resident hunters who are more likely to be casual turkey hunters rather than serious, traveling-turkey-hunter types.

I think the idea that western hunters are less likely to become "attached" to spring gobbler hunting because of the abundance of other opportunities is correct, as well.  There are some of us for sure, and the number is increasing yearly as more western hunters discover spring hunting and "the gobble addiction", but many of them are still in that initial learning-curve phase,...and so are the turkeys in many places. 

However, from my experience, western turkeys in those places where they have been hunted enough that the gobbler numbers are being significantly impacted through harvest rates, and the remaining birds are being highly pressured, are quickly becoming just as hunter-savvy as other subspecies hunted under those same conditions.

[Dtrkyman]

On a western hunting forum I frequent someone just posted about how he buys a turkey tag(Montana) just to have it in case he hears a bird while bear hunting, if it is convenient he may go after the bird.

Keep in mind many western states have isolated populations of birds, the locals know where they are and the pressure is really concentrated in some instances.

I have travel turkey hunted since the 90s, and in many turkey "destination" states, the worst pressure I have ever experienced was in a western stae last year!  Total chit show!

I hunted the area the year prior and found tons of sign and could not get a bird to gobble or call any in late in the season, seeing all that pressure the next spring I understood why!

I averaged 8 miles per day on the boots, and one 16 mile day,  many more in the truck all in an area that looks like prime merriams habitat with sign being very sparse other than one area.  The following spring that hot spot was void of turkey sign!

[GobbleNut]

On a western hunting forum I frequent someone just posted about how he buys a turkey tag(Montana) just to have it in case he hears a bird while bear hunting, if it is convenient he may go after the bird.

Keep in mind many western states have isolated populations of birds, the locals know where they are and the pressure is really concentrated in some instances.

I have travel turkey hunted since the 90s, and in many turkey "destination" states, the worst pressure I have ever experienced was in a western stae last year!  Total chit show!

I hunted the area the year prior and found tons of sign and could not get a bird to gobble or call any in late in the season, seeing all that pressure the next spring I understood why!

I averaged 8 miles per day on the boots, and one 16 mile day,  many more in the truck all in an area that looks like prime merriams habitat with sign being very sparse other than one area.  The following spring that hot spot was void of turkey sign!

You and I have discussed that place a few times.  Problem is, we are probably both considering going back up there again for some unknown reason!   

[tbowers]

Even if the res license numbers are both fall and spring, that number of 36K licenses is insanely high compared to surrounding states. I sent an email to MT fish and game, see if they respond this year.

I get that some buy to have when they do spring bear hunting, its only $15 extra($7.50 for upland game bird/$6.50 for Turkey 'add on'). Maybe it just is that, and guys but a fall tag in conjunction with elk/mule/lope, etc hunting since the res tag is crazy cheap.

[deathfoot]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm hitting MT this spring) but can't a person buy 11 turkey tags a year??

That seems crazy high. But I think that's right.

[GobbleNut]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm hitting MT this spring) but can't a person buy 11 turkey tags a year??

I was looking for information on hunting Montana a while back and I got the same impression.  I don't know for sure, but I think that being able to get that many permits is based on things like there being undersubscribed drawings in units, private authorizations, weapons restrictions, and things like that.  I don't think a guy can just go buy that many OTC tags and go mow 'em down.  Could be wrong about that, though.  I suspect someone here can clarify that for those of us that are interested but not willing to sort through all of the Montana regs.   

Regardless, Montana apparently has a LOT of turkeys now from the population estimates I have seen....

[deathfoot]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm hitting MT this spring) but can't a person buy 11 turkey tags a year??

I was looking for information on hunting Montana a while back and I got the same impression.  I don't know for sure, but I think that being able to get that many permits is based on things like there being undersubscribed drawings in units, private authorizations, weapons restrictions, and things like that.  I don't think a guy can just go buy that many OTC tags and go mow 'em down.  Could be wrong about that, though.  I suspect someone here can clarify that for those of us that are interested but not willing to sort through all of the Montana regs.   

Regardless, Montana apparently has a LOT of turkeys now from the population estimates I have seen....

Yes. I'm still waiting for the 2023 Turkey regs to be put out by MT. I haven't checked in several days. And I still can't buy a 2023 turkey tag as of then either. Which isn't uncommon in some states. I can buy Illinois license tomorrow but got the tag way before I could buy the permit. I can't seem to get MO's yet either.

[Guskie]

I believe in the spring, you can get up to 5 male turkey tags. One general unit tag and 4 unit specific tags.

[Guskie]

https://www.eregulations.com/montana/hunting/turkey-hunting-regulations

[idgobble]

Some states sell a "Sportsman's Package" that includes tags for deer, elk, bear, wolf, turkey, etc.  Here's what you get tags for in ID whether you hunt them or not. 1 The sportsman's package includes deer, elk, turkey, bear, gray wolf and mountain lion tags, and archery, muzzleloader, salmon and steelhead permits. 2 Available only at Idaho Fish and Game offices.