Any Black Powder Action?

[shaman]

I will shortly be getting my Pedersoli Brown Bess ready for its first turkey season. I'm looking for the best way to go about it.

I've got #6 chilled lead, and enough 3F to get me through until Friendship in June. Here are my options as I see them

1) Skychief Method-- I've got all the fixings.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/skychiefs-shot-load-link.127394/
2) Shot Cup Method --  https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/premade-shot-cups-cartridges-how-to.113216/
3) The Corn Muffin Mix Method-- https://www.traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/muffin-mix-turkey-loads
4) The Candle Load Method -- I've not found much info on this, but basically, you imbed your shot in paraffin. It's something I heard about way-way back.

  Most of my shots in the past 20-some seasons are within 16 yards, so I'm not too worried about distance.

How do y'all go about it?

[joey46]

Just me with no experience with other than the TK2000.  I've always loaded it with it's close to maximum recommended load of 100gr of black powder and 2 1/2oz of number 6 shot.  The recoil is extreme but other than during patterning sessions is not a problem.   Most post usually like heavy loads over tweaking when discussing any of these muzzloading shotguns.  At your usual ranges you'll be good.  Be waiting for pictures.  Good luck.

[firedup]

Congrats on the Persoli! Very nice guns.
-the skychief method seems to be alittle hit and miss. If it works for you it can be really good. You should try it because its the ONLY way to know for sure.
-you will likely get better patterns and range by using copper or nickel plated shot
-cornstarch is an old traditional method if you like doing that. Some like the old ways best. All good. But most likely better patterns and range can be found using other methods.
-I can see the use of wax. Never tried it tho
-shot cups will likely give you good / best results if you tinker with length of cup and slits in cup. There is ALOT of old discussion about plastic cups leaving melted plastic residue in barrels tho.  More of an issue with true front loaders vs inlines and such you can break down and reaaaallly clean and inspect. ** I have shot a bunch of BP cartridge guns with cups and others (Thompson Center, TK 2000) all with shot cups and never really noticed plastic buildup.  Just MY findings.

If it helps ..... I have loaded copper plated, ect but shoot chilled lead just because I have bags of it.  I also duplex my turkey loads, usually 4 & 6's.  I tinkered around with hard fiber wads and prelubed wonder wads in various combinations and finally came up with a good pattern at 35 yards or so. Happy with that for my uses and left it at that.

[crow]

For turkey or squirrel I always tried for the tightest center core patterns in cly. bore M. Loaders I could get. A tight center core pattern in an open choke M.L. is not going to be any where near as tight as you picture a 2.75" turkey load in a modern full choke gun.

In true cly. bore guns the skychief load has given me the most noticeable improvements for tighter patterns. The guy who came up with this made no claim it would improve patterns in guns that had any amount of choke. In my experimenting I found this to be true.--- Cyl. bore was big improvement, imp. cyl. there was enough improvement to be worth it. In a gun with more choke than that there was little or no improvement.

This is for blackpowder,--- for 20gauge I got the best patterns with 2F.--- 3F had uneven and splotchy patterns no matter if trying for tight center core or just a normal more open rabbit pattern.
In 14 and 12 gauge 1F has been the best with 2F a close second.

before "sky chief",--- in cly. bore guns the very tightest center core patterns in the several guns I tried were by dropping the powder charge and increasing the shot charge. As an example------2F powder, thin over shot card over the powder, a 1/4"felt wad, then another thin over shot card, then your shot charge which is 35 to 40 grains more BY VOLUME not weight than your powder charge on your powder measure.) for the overshot card for tight center core patterns, by far the best patterns I got were with hornets nest paper. A very close second was a 1/4" felt wad. For a more open rabbit type pattern the thin paper overshot card was fine.


By far the worst patterns (doughnut holes) were with using the standard 1/2" fiber wads as over the powder wads, that was with and without combos of hard nitro cards.

In the old Henry Davis book he mentions the tightest patterns they got in an old 14ga percussion gun were with a 1/4" felt for over the powder wads and the same 1/4"  felt as overshot wads.

If I remember correctly in the VM Starr book he got his best M.L. patterns using 3 thin overshot cards as his over powder wad and 1 thin over shot card over his shot. Goggle VM Starr, there is some good reading there

[joey46]

I'm glad you got a couple of relies "shaman".  The easy availability of muzzleloader components is now so limited it is no surprise how few shoot them.  I have a lifetime supply of loadings for my Knight but would still try and grab a used T/C New Englander if I ever saw a decent one in the used market.  "Decent" the key word.  Many muzzleloaders rifle/shotguns have spent years hanging over fireplaces with internal rust chewing them up.  Too bad.  Good luck.

[DocHolliday]

My experience mirrors crow's. So much so that I pulled the XF Turkey choke out and replaced it with cyl bore and SkyChief's load in the 12 bore. In the 20 (fixed choke), I've had to get creative because the modified choke doesn't work well with the SkyChief method. I load the right barrel with SkyChief for distance and the left (modified) conventional for close. I may have to try to switch the triggers so that the front trigger fires the left barrel instead of the right and vice versa as it's confusing to an old wingshooter to have to remember the order!

[firedup]

I have several BP shotguns including the TK2000 but the TC New Englander is my go to using the load described above.

[reflexl]

I dove in head first with 3 muzzle loading turkey guns. I tried a lot of stuff and ended up going to TSS. Probably spent 1000.00 getting to work like I wanted it. Finally figured out a recipe that works in all of them and shoots like a turkey gun. TK 2000, Huntsman and Encore.

[shaman]

Thanks all.  I'd kind of forgotten this thread.  It took me a while to circle back.  There's lots of good info here.

It's funny, but when I got the 'Bess, I thought there would be a fairly easy path to getting a load that works.  There are so many variables.  It's a real mad scientist deal.  However, now that I'm retired, it makes for the perfect sort of project.

[joey46]

Just watched a few YouTube muzzleloader threads.  As always a thousand different opinions.  Having used only a TK2000 loaded to almost the max it was refreshing to watch some shooting without getting a nosebleed from the recoil.   Lol.  Fun stuff.

[shaman]

Everybody has a different idea of how to do it.  A good part of that is each firearm is different to a certain extent.  Case in point:   I had decided that I'd start with 80 grains of 3F and a 2oz Skychief load in my 'Bess.   Yikes!  Was I wrong.  Here are my notes from the trip.

Down to the Farm

[reflexl]

Everybody has a different idea of how to do it.  A good part of that is each firearm is different to a certain extent.  Case in point:   I had decided that I'd start with 80 grains of 3F and a 2oz Skychief load in my 'Bess.   Yikes!  Was I wrong.  Here are my notes from the trip.

Down to the Farm

Interesting

[crow]

Everybody has a different idea of how to do it.  A good part of that is each firearm is different to a certain extent.  Case in point:   I had decided that I'd start with 80 grains of 3F and a 2oz Skychief load in my 'Bess.   Yikes!  Was I wrong.  Here are my notes from the trip.

Down to the Farm

I think you will get better center core patterns with 1F or 2F in your larger bore gun, felt recoil will be a little less also

everybody does have different methods and guns are individuals to a point, but from ML's to blackpowder  shotshell guns 3F typically doesn't give the best patterns

[shaman]

]



I think you will get better center core patterns with 1F or 2F in your larger bore gun, felt recoil will be a little less also

everybody does have different methods and guns are individuals to a point, but from ML's to blackpowder  shotshell guns 3F typically doesn't give the best patterns

I'll give that at try next time I'm out.  Thanks.

[crow]

 ,   I would bet you'll get to a solid 30 yards, probably a little further