mossberg 835 24" vs 20" barell

[decoykrvr]

Aside from the slight differences in fps and overall patterns between a 20" vs 24", there is a very significant factor which hasn't been addressed.  The potential hearing loss from short barrel shotguns is much greater than w/ longer barreled shotguns.  I don't know any turkey hunters who wear hearing protection while hunting, although a few do wear sound amplification devices which usually have a 80 decibel sound shut-off or suppressor.  Years ago I had a Mag 10 Roadblocker w/ a 20" vent ribbed barrel w/Briley tubes, and the muzzle blast and resultant db's experienced during hunting situations would numb my left ear w/ hearing loss for hours and has contributed to long term hearing loss.  Several studies I've read indicate that the decibel level at the ear decreases significantly w/ the barrel length and resultant increase in distance away from the ear due to the cone shaped pressure/sound wave generated when a firearm is discharged.  I personally prefer a turkey gun w/ a minimum 26" barrel which is more forgiving to slight shaking and movement than a short barrel and have no trouble maneuvering through the woods.  For several years BT (before tubes) I hunted w/ a 3" Browning Auto 5 w/ a 32" full barrel and a Stevens 10 gauge w/ a 36" full barrel, so for me 26" is short.

[honker22]

I use a Rem 870 with a 21" barrel.  I have had no problems getting good patterns and it's been knocking heads since 1996.

[natman]

Aside from the slight differences in fps and overall patterns between a 20" vs 24", there is a very significant factor which hasn't been addressed.  The potential hearing loss from short barrel shotguns is much greater than w/ longer barreled shotguns.  I don't know any turkey hunters who wear hearing protection while hunting, although a few do wear sound amplification devices which usually have a 80 decibel sound shut-off or suppressor.  Years ago I had a Mag 10 Roadblocker w/ a 20" vent ribbed barrel w/Briley tubes, and the muzzle blast and resultant db's experienced during hunting situations would numb my left ear w/ hearing loss for hours and has contributed to long term hearing loss.  Several studies I've read indicate that the decibel level at the ear decreases significantly w/ the barrel length and resultant increase in distance away from the ear due to the cone shaped pressure/sound wave generated when a firearm is discharged.  I personally prefer a turkey gun w/ a minimum 26" barrel which is more forgiving to slight shaking and movement than a short barrel and have no trouble maneuvering through the woods.  For several years BT (before tubes) I hunted w/ a 3" Browning Auto 5 w/ a 32" full barrel and a Stevens 10 gauge w/ a 36" full barrel, so for me 26" is short.

Wear hearing protection and the "problem" is moot. Try a set of Peltor 6s.

http://www.amazon.com/Peltor-97044-Tactical-Hearing-Protector/dp/B00009363P

How exactly is a 26" barrel "more forgiving to slight shaking and movement" than a short barrel?

[gobblergls]

[

Wear hearing protection and the "problem" is moot. Try a set of Peltor 6s.

[/quote]

Unfortunately, even with the best hearing protection available, the reduced noise levels with pistol, rifle, and shotgun blasts will often be at high enough decibel levels to cause damage in some folk's ears.  Protection helps, but does not entirely eliminate the risk.  It's something we have to live with if we shoot guns regularly.

[natman]

Wear hearing protection and the "problem" is moot. Try a set of Peltor 6s.

Unfortunately, even with the best hearing protection available, the reduced noise levels with pistol, rifle, and shotgun blasts will often be at high enough decibel levels to cause damage in some folk's ears.  Protection helps, but does not entirely eliminate the risk.  It's something we have to live with if we shoot guns regularly.

I'm a big fan of hearing protection, I don't ever shoot without it,  but I'm not going to go to a 28" barrel instead of a 20" because of less noise when I'm wearing muffs, especially since I shoot 1 shot a day while turkey hunting. I shoot a 20" barrel, I wear a set of Peltor 6s and they turn a shotgun's BOOM into a faint, faraway boom.

[decoykrvr]

The shorter the barrel the more movement at the receiver is amplified (the arc of the motion) at the muzzle with any firearm: rifle, shotgun, or pistol/revolver. Its true on stationary game as well as flying or running animals.  In a lifetime of turkey hunting, I've never encountered a single hunter wearing Peltor style hearing protectors and the only time I've ever seen them used was by "Blind Sitters" on TV.  If you can tolerate the heat, discomfort, and severe reduction in your ability to pinpoint and locate sounds, more power to you to protect your hearing, but the majority of hunters won't wear a "muff" style protector.  As an audiologist will tell you, most hearing loss is repeated exposure to high db's over time, but one of the most deleterious insults which can cause rapid hearing loss is high db's coupled with the shock wave generated by a firearm.  It's pretty simple, the further the muzzle blast is from the ear the less potential for hearing loss even with the few shells shot during a given turkey season.

[gobblergls]

.  As an audiologist will tell you, most hearing loss is repeated exposure to high db's over time, but one of the most deleterious insults which can cause rapid hearing loss is high db's coupled with the shock wave generated by a firearm.  It's pretty simple, the further the muzzle blast is from the ear the less potential for hearing loss even with the few shells shot during a given turkey season.

The best muffs give about 25-32 decibel reduction.  A shotgun blast is 140-155 dB.  That leaves 108 dB on the table at best.  Repeated exposure to above 80 dB is all it takes for loss.  The best protection my ears had was giving up dove hunting for about 25 years.  All my buddies who stayed in the dove game have monaural hearing at best and most of them wore protection, ear plugs.  You can tell an avid shotgunner over the age of 50--he's the guy who say's "huh?" and turns his gun shoulder ear towards you when you talk--the muzzle ear is shot out.    This kind of hearing loss is a turkey's best friend.

[natman]

The shorter the barrel the more movement at the receiver is amplified (the arc of the motion) at the muzzle with any firearm: rifle, shotgun, or pistol/revolver. Its true on stationary game as well as flying or running animals.  ..... As an audiologist will tell you, most hearing loss is repeated exposure to high db's over time, but one of the most deleterious insults which can cause rapid hearing loss is high db's coupled with the shock wave generated by a firearm.  It's pretty simple, the further the muzzle blast is from the ear the less potential for hearing loss even with the few shells shot during a given turkey season.

These arguments display a fine grasp of theoretical detail but a poor sense of practical perspective. Both arguments are technically true, but neither is important.

Yes, a shorter barrel does provide a shorter sighting plane, which I guess is what your "amplified movement" is about. But to put things in the proper perspective, we're talking about shooting turkeys with a shotgun, not match shooting with an iron sighted 22. If you miss a turkey with a 20" shotgun, you'd miss it with a 30" shotgun.

Yes, I understand that a 20" barreled shotgun is somewhat louder than a 28" barreled shotgun. But if you are concerned about hearing damage - and you should be - then SOLVE the problem by wearing hearing protection, don't kid yourself that you're not causing damage with a 28" barrel and no protection.

In a lifetime of turkey hunting, I've never encountered a single hunter wearing Peltor style hearing protectors and the only time I've ever seen them used was by "Blind Sitters" on TV.  If you can tolerate the heat, discomfort, and severe reduction in your ability to pinpoint and locate sounds, more power to you to protect your hearing, but the majority of hunters won't wear a "muff" style protector.

Spoken like someone who has never used them. The only one of your arguments that has any merit is the heat; when it's above 80F they do get a bit warm and I use active plugs instead. The Peltors are not uncomfortable and when properly adjusted there is no problem locating sounds, at least based on my 15 years and hundreds of hours using them.

[gobblergls]

From the University of Pennsylvania:
http://www.ehrs.upenn.edu/programs/occupat/hcp/noise_control.html

6 The maximum of sound attenuation one gets when wearing hearing protection devices is limited by human body and bone conduction mechanisms. Even though a particular device may provide outstanding values of noise attenuation the actual noise reductions may be less because of the noise surrounding the head and body bypasses the hearing protector and is transmitted through tissue and bone pathways to the inner ear.
Note: The term "double hearing protection" is misleading. The attenuation provided from any combination earplug and earmuff is not equal to the sum of their individual attenuation values.

I knew a State Crime Lab Ballistics expert who double protected with plugs and muffs.  After 20 years of test firing weapons into bullet traps he lost his hearing.  Muffs, plugs reduce, but don't solve the problem.

[natman]

From the University of Pennsylvania:
http://www.ehrs.upenn.edu/programs/occupat/hcp/noise_control.html

6 The maximum of sound attenuation one gets when wearing hearing protection devices is limited by human body and bone conduction mechanisms. Even though a particular device may provide outstanding values of noise attenuation the actual noise reductions may be less because of the noise surrounding the head and body bypasses the hearing protector and is transmitted through tissue and bone pathways to the inner ear.
Note: The term "double hearing protection" is misleading. The attenuation provided from any combination earplug and earmuff is not equal to the sum of their individual attenuation values.

I knew a State Crime Lab Ballistics expert who double protected with plugs and muffs.  After 20 years of test firing weapons into bullet traps he lost his hearing.  Muffs, plugs reduce, but don't solve the problem.

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Surely you're not saying that there's no point in wearing hearing protection?

[gobblergls]

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Surely you're not saying that there's no point in wearing hearing protection?

Of course not. It's just we have to make the choice of gunsports or unimpaired hearing.   You can't have both if you do a lot of shooting.  It's like seatbelts.  They reduce the risk, but don't eliminate potential injury or death from car accidents.  There is not a product on the market that eliminates potential hearing loss from shotgun blasts.  Just do the simple math of shotgun blast dBs compared with advertised noise reduction dBs.  What is left after reduction is still above the limit of predicted damaging dB levels.  I wear protection dove hunting and at the pattern board.  I wouldnt' be caught dead (maybe deaf) in a turkey woods wearing hearing protection.   I've switched over to a 20 gauge for reasons other than for hearing protection.  That will help some, but won't eliminate hearing damage.  It's a choice we have to make.  And then, some folks ears can handle it better than others.