What’s happening to our precious Turkey’s

[zelmo1]

Overall numbers are down here too. I heard good gobbling 2 days out of the 22 days I hunted. I saw a few birds but even then the gobbling was poor. We got lucky and made the most of our opportunities.  Good shot opportunities are getting less and less. I hope its all a "cycle" and it comes back around.

[eggshell]

we have certainly debated this topic a lot and I think we're still just throwing darts at a wall. There are a lot of good opinions and possibilities, but solutions are still evasive at best. I have about determined that it's a combination of many things all chipping away. It's predators, habitat, weather, human interference and more. I still am pretty solid on one position and that is that our presumed carrying capacity is way less for the current habitat then what many of us thought and this is a huge factor. After all the immense reintroduction efforts we saw a great boom in all our flocks and then things began to level out and develop a flat curve of a standing crop with periodic fluctuations. If this is the primary case we may just have to live with what we have. I do think there are things that can be done to push that curve upward, but it will take a very big effort across wide parameters, involving state, federal and private resources. My vote for the number one contributor to poor brood survival (or recruitment in technical terms ) is depredation by nest predators. Look back to when fur markets went bust and trapping/predator/raccoon hunting all declined and this slide started just a few years after that. The bleeding heart animal rights people feel like they won one, but many species of wildlife lost when they won their self proclaimed righteous victory. Raccoons over populated and there have been big outbreaks of distemper and rabies. Small game and birds of all types suffered disease and nest failures. I could go on, but I'm preaching to the council of Bishops, we all know this. They need to stay in their lane and run Hollywood and make movies, do talk shows, play politics in Washington and let the outdoors people fund the scientist and biologist that manage our resources. I wouldn't expect an Amish elder to know how to fly my jet plane and I don't know how to make a movie, so leave the wildlife to those who know.

[Tom007]

I want to get some opinions on another POSSIBLE factor that I have noticed that could be contributing to lower Turkey numbers, especially in the big woods. I have noticed in NY and NJ over the past decade the woods has matured, gotten much thicker. Areas that used to be more open are no longer open. I am wondering if this is leading to more "ambush" of poults and even adults due to the denser forests. I know here in NJ, very little logging goes on, the woods just keeps getting denser over time. Just an observation, might not have merit, but I wanted to throw this out there.....

[Wigsplitter]

On the woods thickness observation I don't know - might make it easier for predator to get close for ambush and such - I live in Arkansas where timber industry is king and thick woods are common - we all keep coming back to a theme ... predators- along with human activity( harvest - timber/ ag practices)  I hope we can get this downward trend turned around - I feel like Arkansas is about to cut state limit to one bird from 2 and several other states are following - maybe this will help some - I personally saw 9 busted eggs in the woods this spring all miles apart and from 3 different states.... tells me we are losing a ton in nest predation- I need to be trapping myself!! Great post here!

[ChesterCopperpot]

I want to get some opinions on another POSSIBLE factor that I have noticed that could be contributing to lower Turkey numbers, especially in the big woods. I have noticed in NY and NJ over the past decade the woods has matured, gotten much thicker. Areas that used to be more open are no longer open. I am wondering if this is leading to more "ambush" of poults and even adults due to the denser forests. I know here in NJ, very little logging goes on, the woods just keeps getting denser over time. Just an observation, might not have merit, but I wanted to throw this out there.....

There are places where I think this could definitely hold true, Tom, but I think about the areas I hunt in South Carolina where they have a very active and successful prescribed fire schedule and man I hunt some gorgeous, gorgeous woods that don't have the birds they had just a few years ago.


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[Tom007]

On the woods thickness observation I don't know - might make it easier for predator to get close for ambush and such - I live in Arkansas where timber industry is king and thick woods are common - we all keep coming back to a theme ... predators- along with human activity( harvest - timber/ ag practices)  I hope we can get this downward trend turned around - I feel like Arkansas is about to cut state limit to one bird from 2 and several other states are following - maybe this will help some - I personally saw 9 busted eggs in the woods this spring all miles apart and from 3 different states.... tells me we are losing a ton in nest predation- I need to be trapping myself!! Great post here!

I want to get some opinions on another POSSIBLE factor that I have noticed that could be contributing to lower Turkey numbers, especially in the big woods. I have noticed in NY and NJ over the past decade the woods has matured, gotten much thicker. Areas that used to be more open are no longer open. I am wondering if this is leading to more "ambush" of poults and even adults due to the denser forests. I know here in NJ, very little logging goes on, the woods just keeps getting denser over time. Just an observation, might not have merit, but I wanted to throw this out there.....

There are places where I think this could definitely hold true, Tom, but I think about the areas I hunt in South Carolina where they have a very active and successful prescribed fire schedule and man I hunt some gorgeous, gorgeous woods that don't have the birds they had just a few years ago.


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Thanks, great responses, it's probably a culmination of everything unfortunately...

[ChesterCopperpot]

Thanks, great responses, it's probably a culmination of everything unfortunately...

There are folks on this site who for one reason or another don't like Mike Chamberlain, but regardless of their feelings he's spent more time contemplating and studying this than most any of us can claim and that's what he's said all along: it's not one thing; its the culmination of issues; it's death by a thousand cuts.


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[BDeal]

The numbers seem to be declining in my part of WI as well. I wouldn't mind seeing less tags available if it's going to help them rebound.

[Howie g]

Yes , there are more nest predators than ever , habitat gets less and less .
But we are over looking the most obvious! 
OURSELVES!!!!     

[ChesterCopperpot]

Yes , there are more nest predators than ever , habitat gets less and less .
But we are over looking the most obvious! 
OURSELVES!!!!   

Been a lot of people in this thread, including me, who have mentioned hunters (me personally believing we're the greatest impact). That to say, I don't think most the people engaging in this conversation are oblivious to that. The question that hasn't been raised is whether or not we're willing to face stricter regulation for the potential of a rebounded population?


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[Howie g]

Yes , there are more nest predators than ever , habitat gets less and less .
But we are over looking the most obvious! 
OURSELVES!!!!   

Been a lot of people in this thread, including me, who have mentioned hunters (me personally believing we're the greatest impact). That to say, I don't think most the people engaging in this conversation are oblivious to that. The question that hasn't been raised is whether or not we're willing to face stricter regulation for the potential of a rebounded population?
  Your right Chester ,  I kinda miss worded what my meaning was .
The new regulations are coming , and WE are going to have to stick by them , and hold others accountable also .


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[ChesterCopperpot]

Also, what do we do when the science says we need greater regulation and the politicians who sign those regulations into law refuse on the grounds of, "We need the money more than we need the turkeys." I think in a lot of states we've perpetually sacrificed the biology for the sake of the budget.


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[wchadw]

Yes , there are more nest predators than ever , habitat gets less and less .
But we are over looking the most obvious! 
OURSELVES!!!!   

I believe this is the majority of the problems.
Over Hunting
Nest predators no longer trapped for furs
Habitat loss


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[Happy]

I have said for some time it going come down to more regulations and those are going to either be cutting seasons/bag limits or restricting legal methods and equipment used for hunting. Personally I am hoping for the latter. Though I would be all for many of the methods used today for youth and handicapped hunters.

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[WV Flopper]

 Upland game bird cycle of population?

I hear 0 gunshots, are all the turkeys being killed by Xbows? No.

I heard 4 gunshots all season, 2 states. 3 of the shots were from guys setting over bait in Virginia, all three shots were from their one set.